Europe

A second point. No-one I have heard has seriously suggested that we want to abandon the reasons we originally joined, ie easier trade between countries. Therefore, we would, I suspect, look to become part of EFTA, the European Free Trade Area, joining Switzerland and Norway. Switzerland and Norway have to pay the EU to be part of EFTA, so the logic of "we'll save £50M/day, which we can spend on schools and hospitals" is sadly not true. There are still Brussels-controlled rules as part of being within EFTA, which we would have to continue to abide by. At the moment, we have to abide by these rules, and have some small part in their formulation and evolution. As a member of EFTA, we have to pay, we have to abide, but have no control. That points me towards staying in.
 
What worries me is that people will listen to the Farages of this world, who will say what the general populace wants to hear. But that might not actually be in the best interests of the UK.
 
Let's have a look at what happened in Greece. They had a general election at a time when there was a great deal of austerity measures imposed by Brussels. One party said "We'll renegotiate the austerity". It was what the electorate wanted to hear. That party won the election, and have since failed miserably to renegotiate anything. The point is to be wary of believing what you want to believe, just because someone who you want to believe says it.
 
Akasha, what we don't know, indeed can't know, is what position we would have been in, had we not joined the EEC (as it was at that point) in the first place. With all due respect, you've listened to Farage (you said as much), but have you listened to Call Me Dave, with an open mind?
 
 
I started out liking 'Mr Moron' as I choose to call him and I did start out listening to him with an open mind but as time has gone on he's started to sound more and more like a Tory version of Tony Blair and look where he got us!
 
I am now one of the many people totally disillusioned by modern politics. My vote for UKIP has been a protest vote purely because neither of the main three could tell the truth if their lives depended on it. I admit to liking Nigel Ferage - mostly because he speaks his mind even if it makes him unpopular or labelled a racist. It's refreshing in the modern world to listen to a politician who doesn't mince his words nor tip toe around afraid of offending. 
 
Regardless of what I read or hear over the coming weeks my mind is made up and I'm not going to change it. I still believe Britain would be better on our own. It's time for change and this lady is not for turning 
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 (showing my age now!)
 
I am tending towards 'out' but I seriously doubt that any money saved by not giving it to Europe (and then getting money back) will be used to any great extent to improve essential services in the UK. One thing we do get from Brussels when they allocate funds to be spent in the UK is that that is where the money has to be spent, we cannot guarantee that thoise safeguards will be in place when a group of British bureaucrats get the scent of money.
 
Also, don't forget Mr Cameron's penchant for allocating money to foreign aid. At the moment it is either 8 billion or 13 billion (depending on who you read) and you can bet your bottom dollar that will go up for no significant return on investment.
 
One last thing that tends to swing me to being 'out' is that both the Labour party and the Scottish Nationalists overwhelmingly want to stay 'in' and that worries me; what do they think they know that I don't? Rest assured, whatever it is, it will not be in Britain's interest.
 
I wonder if there are any here you have been swayed to the 'remain' campaign given the constant barrage of "the economy will crash!" "your house prices will crash!" "each household will lose £2000!"
 
In short.  No.
 
I don't ever react well to being threatened or attempts of intimidation no matter the source. The fact that the source at the moment is my own Prime Minister and Chancellor only make it worse.  
 
I like to weigh up the facts and so far facts are hard to come by.  One fact that immediately springs to mind is how we're being governed by people we don't vote for; that doesn't look like changing and is enough for me to say no to this whole thing.
 
Nope ... I think it said it all this week when the head of the EU parliament called us 'deserters' .... that's not the kind of thing a friend would say. I truely believe they all hate us ... they're no friend to us or to our country.
 
Since my post of 22nd February I have come down firmly on the 'Leave' side. I don't take kindly to threats from anyone and don't get me started on Obama's weasel words, I expected better of him. I shall vote 'out' but I feel we are doomed to remain a vassal of the Eurocrats only now we will have to wear more hair-shirts.
 
I saw an interesting MEM on facebook referring to if England left the EU they would then be able to "introduce a fair, Australian - style points- based immigration system" (along with a few other points), but what I found funny is certain demographics of  England looking to Australia (originally Europe's cast offs and unwanted) for answers and ways forwards. Of course Australia was populated by many more than just "criminals" but it certainly made us a varied place full of interesting characters and history. But the fact remains Australia is facing some of the very same issues that most of the rest of the world is also struggling under, and our pollies for all their empty promises backdoor deals and half truths are more than happy to see Australia crumble. With the upcoming federal elections coming up in Australia I really hope that the 2 major sellouts that think they are the only contenders for power, get kicked fairly and squarely to the gutter where they belong and real people with real understanding of the issues facing the vast majority of Australians instead of the few Billionaire fat cats gain the upper hand and then stick to the policies not the vague promises that got them into power.
 
For the UK and many other UN governed countries I hope you can snatch back control of your own countries.
 
well the 'you know what' has hit the fan on my facebook page. Someone I considered a friend (and a friend of many years) has branded anyone voting to leave - 'Blind' 'a sheep' 'unintelligent' 'uneducated' 'zenophobic' and 'aggressive'
 
Oh dear 
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It's so lovely to know what people really think ... and when it comes to politics - that's when you really get to find out.
 
Wow they really left no insult unthrown, but at least now you know their true feelings.
 
no ... she didn't. I'm now left wondering whether to allow it to blow over or hit 'unfriend'. She back pedaling like crazy with things like "Of course I didn't mean you" type excuses but you know .... the stone after it's thrown and all that ....
 
Its actually quite funny or interesting to see how different people suddenly change their "opinion" when family members or other friends start stating their opposition to their 'firmly' held believes. I know family influence and pressure to conform to their ideals can be hard to resist, but I have more respect for people that manage to stand by their educated believes.
 
There is always the adage of Keep your friends close and your enemies closer.
 
Personally I would leave your friend as a friend and just keep posting and sharing your truths, they will either eventually unfriend or follow you, or they may come to see that the other opinions are actually a better option than what had been the status quo being rammed down their throat by the masses.
 
Oh and I just love when a person who is on unsteady ground then has to start throwing around "racist" claims. As soon as a person resorts to those kinds of insults I know they are on the ropes and grasping at anything to make themselves look better.
 
oh don't worry ... the 'r' word did get mentioned. I chose to ignore it because I wanted to be the better person
 
Some people just don't understand it when others have different opinions to them.  They think that they have weighed up the pro's and cons and therefore all should come to the same 'reasoned' solution as them, they will blithely ignore the popular saying that 'there are 2 sides to every story'.
 
I wouldn't delete her as a friend if she has always been a decent friend to you but I would revel in her ignorance, especially as she has implied the ignorance of others.
 
So many fall into the name-calling trap:
I was watching Sky News the other morning when Nick Clegg was being interviewed and he was complaining the that 'Leave' side had failed the argument so were resorting to name-calling and insults, Gillian Joseph (the presenter) then asked "so you have described Boris Johnson as Donald Trump with a Thesaurus?"  Nick Clegg then laughed at the comment and repeated the insult seemingly unaware of the fact he had just done to Boris Johnson (and Donald Trump) what he was accusing Boris Johnson and the 'Leave' side of doing...
 

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