Dwarf Ciclids advice

[BigBurgassio]

Hi , I am considring getting a tank thats big enough for drwarf ciclids in the future, maybe this Christmas, what would be the minimum tank size you would go for ?

Are they better in groups of 3 or 4 or would i be ok with a pair ?

The water i have is soft to moderate,

Thanks

 

[Colin_T]

what sort of dwarf cichlids did you want?
South American dwarfs like Apistogramma cacatuoides can be kept in prs in a 2 foot tank.

Some Rift Lake cichlids from Lake Tanganyika live in prs initially but as the family grows, their territory expands and they need bigger tanks.

If you have soft water (GH below 150ppm) then South American or African riverine dwarf cichlids are probably a better option. If you want Rift Lake cichlids then you will need to buffer the water to increase the hardness.

 

[BigBurgassio]

what sort of dwarf cichlids did you want?
South American dwarfs like Apistogramma cacatuoides can be kept in prs in a 2 foot tank.

Some Rift Lake cichlids from Lake Tanganyika live in prs initially but as the family grows, their territory expands and they need bigger tanks.

If you have soft water (GH below 150ppm) then South American or African riverine dwarf cichlids are probably a better option. If you want Rift Lake cichlids then you will need to buffer the water to increase the hardness.

I was thinking German Blue Ram , though i would get whats most suited to my water

 

[Seisage]

If you want more than one, make sure you're able to sex them confidently. There can be quite a bit of same-sex aggression in some dwarf cichlids, especially between males and especially during spawning. If you want a pair, look for a shop selling an adult pair who are already bonded. It'll be a bit more expensive, but you'll avoid the potential of waking up to a murdered fish. They also do just fine as a lone, single fish.
I wouldn't do any less than a 20 long for a pair. And as a reminder for german rams, they like pretty hot temperatures, 80-82F. If you want any other species of fish in the tank, make sure they're okay in that range.

 

[Colin_T]

Blue rams will be fine in a 2 ft tank with soft water. However, you want a pr that has chosen each other, not just 2 fish. If they don't choose each other they don't usually work out. The best way to get a pr of rams is to buy a group of 8-10 young fish and grow them up together. Let them pr off naturally and move the prs into their own tanks.

 

[anewbie]

For blue rams i recommend a 29 or 20 long; buy from a reliable breeder (not a store) that can sell a pair. Do not keep other fishes in there with them - esp cory and cardinals; you might be able to get away with ember tetra or green neon tetra (fishes that won't disturb them or go after the frys if you are going to breed them).

Do you know the type of water you have (gh and kh are the two important parameters). Another option you could consider are apistogramma nijjensi (or panduro); these fishes are a bit more hearty and quite colourful - here is my male nijjensi (a. nijjensi are not polygamous unlike many species of apistogramma).

 

[BigBurgassio]

Thanks for the feedback, very useful, id probably going for a 200 litre min tank, might go as high as 350 litres though which would be nearly 4ft long.

 

[BigBurgassio]

For blue rams i recommend a 29 or 20 long; buy from a reliable breeder (not a store) that can sell a pair. Do not keep other fishes in there with them - esp cory and cardinals; you might be able to get away with ember tetra or green neon tetra (fishes that won't disturb them or go after the frys if you are going to breed them).

Do you know the type of water you have (gh and kh are the two important parameters). Another option you could consider are apistogramma nijjensi (or panduro); these fishes are a bit more hearty and quite colourful - here is my male nijjensi (a. nijjensi are not polygamous unlike many species of apistogramma).

View attachment 347400

That a lovely looking, fish, not sure on those parameters but will find out prior to doing anything, regarding stocking i was thinking of only the Ciclids and nothing else.

 

[GaryE]

The key to dwarfs is as far as your tank goes, there is no S on Cichlid. Malawis aren't dwarfs, and they are the only group that stands crowding. If you have a 2 foot tank, rams in a pair will do. If you have a four foot tank, you might be able to have 6 rams, with proper decor.

Rams need heat. I know I'm repeating other good advice up there, but a lot of people decide to forget that inconvenient fact. The species is adapted to ponds and streams on an open savannah, and the water water gets a full blast of sunlight. Most other softwater dwarfs come from forests where tree and canopy shade reduces the temperature to varying degrees. Temperature is not a one size fits all issue with these fish, and you have to check out good sources.

 

[anewbie]

Just be aware that some dwarf cichild are polgyamous and the rules change for those species as the female becomes extremely aggressive torwards the male while brooding.

 

[GaryE]

Most of my dwarf Cichlid breedings (over 100) have been male and female pairs, but I have had one male with two females, and one female with two males side by side, peacefully fertilizing the eggs. You can't count on the exceptions though, and in my experience, the myth of the harem is just that - a myth. I've seen a lot more spawnings where 3rd, 4th 5th etc wheels get murdered before you can react and get them into a second tank. If you only have one tank, then aim for a pair.

 

[anewbie]

Most of my dwarf Cichlid breedings (over 100) have been male and female pairs, but I have had one male with two females, and one female with two males side by side, peacefully fertilizing the eggs. You can't count on the exceptions though, and in my experience, the myth of the harem is just that - a myth. I've seen a lot more spawnings where 3rd, 4th 5th etc wheels get murdered before you can react and get them into a second tank. If you only have one tank, then aim for a pair.

Gary again i'm going to have to disagree with you - in this case strongly as it depends heavily on the species. For example apistogramma ortegai are clearly harem breeders. The key aspect isn't having more females but rather the female becomes very aggressive to the male and the male does not partake in care of the frys. The reason this is important is how you scape the tank and the length of the aquarium becomes more important since the male has to be able to stay away from the female during this period. Also when the female does not want to breed or is not ready to breed the male can become very aggressive to the female and again the aquarium needs to be of length and scaped in a way that she can avoid him during this period. With fishes that bond this aggression when she does not want to breed does not exist or is minimal unless the fishes 'break up' and she looks for a new partner.

Rams are clearly pair forming and a third wheel will be doubled teamed as well as kribs (which bond very strongly and both parents care for the frys; which can be problematic in the aquarium).

 

[GaryE]

My view became that female Apistos, in general, have strong territories, into which they may allow males with strong broodcare instincts. Males have larger territories they usually defend from other males, but while they overlap, they seem unrelated to the females - you have two worlds coexisting. I never had a male get involved with 2 females at the same time, though I did have a couple of "serial monogamists'" in large tanks. Groups usually ended in disaster, as I had a few large groups of various species in a period when no one wanted Apistos. When you raise a brood to adulthood and can't move them, you get to see things.

Most of them are things you don't want to see...

I had ortegai, but they didn't spawn here. It sounds like that might have been interesting.

 

[anewbie]

My view became that female Apistos, in general, have strong territories, into which they may allow males with strong broodcare instincts. Males have larger territories they usually defend from other males, but while they overlap, they seem unrelated to the females - you have two worlds coexisting. I never had a male get involved with 2 females at the same time, though I did have a couple of "serial monogamists'" in large tanks. Groups usually ended in disaster, as I had a few large groups of various species in a period when no one wanted Apistos. When you raise a brood to adulthood and can't move them, you get to see things.

Most of them are things you don't want to see...

I had ortegai, but they didn't spawn here. It sounds like that might have been interesting.

I have 3 females with my male (a. cf ortega) in a 65 (48 long 16 wide); all three appear to be spawning; all three have warned the male off and he is now regulated to a small area in the left front corner while the females do their thing.

 

[GaryE]

Ha.
That doesn't sound like a harem, just a small town.