Does The Loch-ness Monster Exist?

[Dave Spencer]

Personally I say the easiest way to find out if there is a loc-ness monster is to go the same root Mr.Burns did in the simpsons, drain the whole lake, but I'd have a couple man made lakes and drain them into that.

Make sure you use the monsterometer, and not the frog exaggerator

"Isn't it enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe that there are fairies at the bottom of it too?"
Douglas Adams

 

[t1tanrush]

I have solved this mystery:
1. Drain lake
2. Capture the creatures (if there are multiples) and return some back to the lake.
3. Take a couple to seaworld.
4. Teach them tricks
5.
6. Profit

 

[Freedom18]

Going back to all seriousness, could they not have simply died out? Oarfish (and no I'm not saying thats what this is) led to many reports of "sea serpents" and they only show up at the surface when dieing. So isn't it plausible that the original few sightings were of a dead or dieing "Nessie" and there is no more, thats why there are no more reliable reports? It very well could've been a large eel, say 3 or 4 feet long, dieing at the surface, or perhaps several smaller eels at once, that would appear to be a very large creature. Just a couple of thoughts I had, but I'm just a humble airman reading the forums instead of studying, so I could be way off...

 

[pica_nuttalli]

Going back to all seriousness, could they not have simply died out? Oarfish (and no I'm not saying thats what this is) led to many reports of "sea serpents" and they only show up at the surface when dieing. So isn't it plausible that the original few sightings were of a dead or dieing "Nessie" and there is no more, thats why there are no more reliable reports? It very well could've been a large eel, say 3 or 4 feet long, dieing at the surface, or perhaps several smaller eels at once, that would appear to be a very large creature. Just a couple of thoughts I had, but I'm just a humble airman reading the forums instead of studying, so I could be way off...

so you argue that nessie *did* exist but is now extinct? an interesting compromise...

 

[xweeqtx]

Being Scottish, I had to have my input. I can't say that I believe in there being a monster, but certainly something is or was in Loch Ness[which is larger than you think]. I'm going to stay strictly factual from research first, and basically "tell" the story.

Loch Ness is part of the Great Glen or Glen Mor in Gaelic, a scar like fault line which runs over 60 miles from Inverness in the north to Fort William in the south. It is made up of 3 lochs, Loch Lochy, Loch Oich and Loch Ness, with Loch Ness being by far the largest.The loch is a tectonic lake resulting from a movement in the earths crust. Around 500 million years ago tremors opened up the crack that is now Loch Ness as the land to the north moved around 65 miles south westerly.During the last ice age, which ended about 10 to 12 thousand years ago, the whole area was covered in 4 thousand feet of ice. In fact the only land mark would have been Ben Nevis to the south. It was this ice which gauged out the trough that loch ness lies in. Tremors can still be felt around the loch, the last one in December 1997. The hills surrounding the loch are still rising by 1mm per year.

It holds 263 thousand million cubic feet of water which is around 16 million 430 thousand million gallons of water with a surface area of 14000 acres and could hold the population of the world 10 times over.

So, as you see, it's quite capable of holding some sort of creature, whatever "Nessie" may be.Another point I should make is that only the first 100 feet of water in Loch Ness's water temperature changes, and the Loch never freezes over due to weather. The water below the first 100ft stays at a steady 44 degrees Fahrenheit - I'm not sure what difference this may make but I'm pretty sure it should be mentioned.

So as the surface water cools in winter and nears freezing point it sinks and is replaced by the warmer water from below. This can cause the loch to steam on very cold days, in fact it as been estimated that the heat given off by the loch in a winter is the equivalent to burning 2 million tons of coal.

Definitely must be warm enough living conditions.

Most people think that the Loch Ness monster first appeared in the 1930s and it is certainly from this time that Nessie became famous but sightings of something unusual in the loch date back much further than this.It is said that the residents around the loch used to tell their children stories of the kelpie to keep them away from the dark dangerous waters of the loch. The story was of a fearsome beast who lived in the loch and when hungrywould leave its watery home and transform itself into a beautiful horse which would wait for some unlucky traveller to climb on its back then it would gallop straight into the loch and feed on its victim. I can see how this would discourage children from playing near the loch but it never stopped the locals from fishing the loch for salmon.

The first recorded sighting of the creature dates back to 565 by Saint Columba. The Saint was an Irish priest who was touring the Highlands teaching Christianity to the Picts. One day while travelling along the side of the loch he came upon a group of locals burying one of their friends who had swum out into the loch to retrieve a boat that had come loose from its moorings and been savaged by a great beast. Columba asked one of his followers to swim out and retrieve the boat and when he did the beast rose from the loch with a mighty roar and went to attack the man. At this point St Columba held up his cross and shouted "Stop go thou no further nor touch the man ". Upon hearing this the beast returned to the depths of the loch seemingly never to roar again.Next we jump to around 1650. At this time the English army were trying to gain more control over the Highland clans and to help with this a large ship was built at Inverness then moved to the loch using rollers. The idea of the ship was to transport supplies and men around the loch to quell any trouble before it became serious. On board the ship was a writer called Richard Franck who was part of Oliver Cromwell's (Lord Protector of England) army. He wrote about the famous Loch Ness well known for its floating islands. Franck explained the floating islands as mats of vegetation moving around the loch but because of the peat content in the water very littlevegetation grows near its shores as the sunlight can only penetrate a few feet below the surface.Other reports of strange things seen in the loch can be found from the 18th and 19th centuries but it was 1933 which heralded the start of the Loch Ness monster as we know it.In April 1933 Mr&Mrs Mackay were driving down the lochside from Inverness to their home in Drumnadrochit when Mrs Mackay saw a disturbance in the loch which she at first thought was ducks fighting but as she watched she saw a large beast in the middle of the loch rolling and plunging in the water causing a great disturbance.The sighting was reported to Alex Campbell, a local game keeper and a reporter for the Inverness Courier (Campbell claims to have seen the monster on no less than 18 occasions). The story appeared in the paperon 2nd of May 1933 and the Loch Ness monster as we know it today was born.

Alex Campbell, I do not believe. 18 occasions he spotted "Nessie" yet we've all yet to see something? I think not.

This is the first picture taken which claims to show the Loch Ness monster. It was taken on the 12th of November 1933 by Hugh Gray at Foyers. Mr Gray was returning from church and was walking near to where the River Foyers meets the loch.He saw an object of considerable dimensions rise out of the flat calm waters of the loch to what he estimated was a height of about 3 feet. He immediately got his camera ready and took a series of 5 photos before the loch had returned to being flat calm again.

The picture has been studied by four photographic experts and all have found it to be without trace of tampering.Dr Maurice Burton a zoologist believed it to show an otter in the act of diving but F. W. Holiday, a well known fishing writer, thought it was some kind of giant marine worm.Interest in the monster soared so the Daily Mail newspaper decided to send a team to the loch to look for evidence. It was headed by Marmaduke Wetherall, a famous big game hunter who turned up at the lochand hired a boat to search for the beast. He intended to use his tracking skills to hunt the monster to its lair.Daily reports appeared in the paper and after only two days at the loch the headlines shouted the story of Wetheralls find of footprints on the shore of the loch. Plaster casts were taken and sent to the British Museum of Natural history to be examined. The footprints were soon discovered to have been made by a stuffed hippopotamus foot so with heads bowed low the Daily Mail left the loch to find other news stories with which to tempt its readers.

This bit, I don't really get - how could a STUFFED animal make footprints on a shore? Even if it was just the foot, why and where would someone get a stuffed hippo foot? IMO, only the Museum would've had a stuffed animal available, and even then, why would they take a foot to make prints on the shore of Loch Ness?Will continue...

The next big event at the loch and probably the one which has had most impact over the last 66 years is the photo taken by Robert Kenneth Wilson on the 19 of April 1934. Better known as the Surgeons photo it must be one of the most easily recognisable photos in the world. Wilson and a friend were in the Highlands wild fowl shooting and when travelling down the side of the loch pulled their car over to stretch their legs near to Invermoriston. As they stood looking at the loch they noticed a considerable commotion on the surface about 200 yards away

After that, an expedition was organised, but the most notable thing on this was(taken from a paragraph);

He looked at it through his binoculars and he could see a dark object in the water which looked like an upturned boat. He started to film it which he did for about 2 minutes until with a plume of spray it disappeared. The 16mm film was sent to London for developing but nothing much could be seen on it as the distance had been too great.

The next notable photograph was taken in 1951. On the photo you can see three large humps and Lachlan claims that just out of shot was a long thin neck which bobbed up and down in the water. Again the film was checked and no proof of tampering could be found.Finally, it was a video taken that was the conclusive evidence of Nessie being truly alive. And Nessie is thought to be a Plesiosaur.Someone mentioned about there being no food in the Loch:

Studies done on the food chain in the loch give estimates from 1 to 27 tonnes and we are told this is not enough to feed a population of plesiosaurs on.The only answer we can think of to this is are all the migratory salmon which pour into the loch included in these figures and what about the unknown amount of eels which live at all levels of the loch?

live on zoo-plankton as there are large quantities of this in the Loch, more concentrated at the northern end

and just to add at the end, the newest discovery about Loch NessA new Loch Ness mystery has unfolded with the discovery of a huge underwater cavern which sections of the media have dubbed 'Nessie's Lair'. Auxiliary coastguard and Drumnadrochit businessman George Edwards made this spectacular find when he was on a coastguard training exercise on the Loch. He picked up an abnormal signal on his sonar. The depth of the Loch is around 750 ft, and as he made a circular manoeuvre with his boat he got a reading of 812 ft on his sonar equipment. George, who over the years has seen many strange shapes on the Loch, has been a tour boat operator for 12 years. His findings have been quoted by experts as 'the most significant in years', but it has only come to light now as he was fearful of being accused of promoting self-interest. Being a firm Nessie believer, George says there must be more than one creature in the Loch and this cavern could lead to a network of caves. He feels the time has come to investigate the underwater caves and has been contacted by a North Sea oil company offering equipment and experts to seek out 'Nessie's Lair'.Hopefully that'll spark some new discussions.

 

[chishnfips]

Of course it exists, shame on all you non believers, thats like saying santa doesn't exist.

 

[CAC]

Not sure if this video has been already posted (I must have missed it if it has) but this is the most conclusive evidence I have seen (unless it has been disproven...?): http/www.metacafe.com/watch/38939/does_l..._monster_exist/
There are a couple of things with this video however which are slightly odd:
They all seem to say "what is that?" and "whats happening!" an aweful lot.
There are cameras filming a camera crew...odd indeed.
What are peoples thoughts on this video?

 

[Bignose]

xweeqtx, I noticed that despite all those quotes and information you gave, you didn't actually answer a single one of my open questions. They are waiting up there in my posts above, and if you have answers, let's see em.

 

[three-fingers]

Not sure if this video has been already posted (I must have missed it if it has) but this is the most conclusive evidence I have seen (unless it has been disproven...?): http/www.metacafe.com/watch/38939/does_l..._monster_exist/
There are a couple of things with this video however which are slightly odd:
They all seem to say "what is that?" and "whats happening!" an aweful lot.
There are cameras filming a camera crew...odd indeed.
What are peoples thoughts on this video?

It's from a film... Quite like to see it though, if that videos anything to go by that film shouldent be terrible.

 

[scotslasszoe]

Och aye. went up to feed wee Nessy last week. and what a braw looking Nessy he is.

Hehe

Nah been up there a few times looking for the bugger .

IMO i dont think so, the amount of research done and no proof 100% anyway.

Zoe

 

[CAC]

It's from a film... Quite like to see it though, if that videos anything to go by that film shouldent be terrible.

Man, I never knew that, the film must be like a documentory then because the people on the link I posted talk back to the camera about what they saw...

 

[xweeqtx]

Why has it been so hard to find any conclusive proof then?

I'm not entirely sure how to answer this, simply because I do not know. If Nessie was to be real, obviously this "monster" or "giant eel" as people seem to believe it is would have reasons for not approaching the surface of the water on a regular basis, but perhaps Loch Ness is only it's "home" at certain times? Like I mentioned before, it's got 2 other waters connected. I don't believe every item of evidence that has been brought up. For example, one of the photographs that caused huge sparks turned out to be a circus guy allowing his elephants to "bathe" in the loch whilst travelling. There's no conclusive proof, and the idea has sort of been... ignored by some people because of those who say they've seen something when they've not. There's been too many supposed "sightings", and yes, I do believe that people look at things and see something which is obviously a log or something, but immediately think its Nessie because of the whole "legend".

Loch Ness isn't exactly ocean sized. How long has the legend of Nessie been around?

Further back than 1930, as mentioned before by myself, the legend started with people telling their children to stay away from the water because of the Kelpie.

The modern interest was sparked by that photo in 1933, so Nessie has to be at least 74 years old now. It had to have had a mother and a father, which means that it is exceptionally unlikely that this is really the last one -- which means that there should have been others out there, which means that having eluded detection for this long is even more unlikely.

Perhaps a case of a mixed breeding? A once in a lifetime happening?

Finally, then, what is Nessie? Its described behavior matches no known animal either alive today or in the fossil record, chances are exceptionally slim that it is completely unique and nothing similar has ever been found. Lots of open questions, Xan.

Again as mentioned, Nessie is believed to be a Plesiosaur, and some have been thinking of some sort of eel also..

That's as far as I can answer you're questions, I'm not a scientist, I just feel this is a topic I'd like to be part of - I have a lot of beliefs and disbeliefs. Nessie is definitely inbetween. More than anything, I'd love to think that something is there.

 

[Bignose]

well, xweeqtx, this is in the scientific section subforum, so no matter how much you'd "love to think that something is there," unless you can bring more conclusive proof and answer those open questions I posted a lot better that what you have, the evidence still all points to no Nessie. The biggest open question I have, which you still didn't answer, still concerns the food question. Because Loch Ness is so dark, sunlight doesn't penetrate it, which means algae and plankton don't grow much, which means that there are very few fish, so what would something as large as Nessie is reported to be, eat? It would have to eat a lot every single day to remain alive, and Loch Ness just doesn't support the level of life that would be required.

I also already pointed out that a Plesiosuar is not likely, since the skeletons we have of Pleasiosaurs show that the neck is not strong enough to rise up out of the water as has been reported.

Finally, telling your kids to stay away from the water is a good idea, no matter what. And, if it takes repeating a non-verified legend to keep your kids away from playing in the water and drowning, that is an acceptable use of "the ends justify the means." Much in the same way of bribing your kids to behave in December because "Santa Claus is watching." However, we all grow up and learn the truth about Santa Claus, and in the same way, learn that there is zero scientific verifiable fact that shows that Nessie is real, too.

 

[Underwurlde]

Seeming as a thread entitlled 'Does the Lochness Monster Exist' actually exisit in in this 'Scientific Section' I am therefore willing to accept that Nessy exists in said Loch. So now let's start charging for people to see her & pay the money into the Scottish football team so that they can start scoring some bloody goals!

 

[texas_aggie]

Bignose,

Since no one else seems to have directly addressed your question...

"

The biggest open question I have, which you still didn't answer, still concerns the food question. Because Loch Ness is so dark, sunlight doesn't penetrate it, which means algae and plankton don't grow much, which means that there are very few fish, so what would something as large as Nessie is reported to be, eat? It would have to eat a lot every single day to remain alive, and Loch Ness just doesn't support the level of life that would be required.

"

I propose the below.

First I will address the assumption on your part "It would have to eat a lot every single day to remain alive..." This is unfounded and unsupported. Large reptiles often go long periods of time without eating. For instance many large adult Nile Crocadiles eat but once a year with the migration of the Water Buffalo. In a hot environment, the metabolism is increased. In a cooler environment (i.e. that of the Loch) the metabolism is decreased, thereby reducing consumption.

Second, it has already been explained that the Loch Ness is not a closed environment. There are at least 2 additional waterways connected to Loch Ness and these could provide additional nutrition. Also, it is known that Salmon migrate through the Loch, as stated earlier in this discussion. So, at least once a year, there is a know large exterior influence in nutrition directly available to "Nessy."

This may not have been the most scientific of rebuttals, but I did rely greatly on sources already addressed in this discussion and common knowlege (Nile Crocadiles, Metabolism Rates). I hope you are now satisfied that someone has directly addressed your original question and hope this inspires further discussion.