Discus are an endless money pit!

[Lajos_Detari]

Do you know what fascinates me about this stuff? We are happy to treat our fish with substances that are carcinogenic to cure a disease. Just imagine if that is what we did to ourselves, give us a carcinogen because you have the flu.

Yes, I agree but we have no choice.

The gill flukes were killing my fish one by one... starting with Blue Rams, Apistogrammas, and even my big Heckelli.
All my expensive fish died.
I almost wanted to close down all my tanks because of gill flukes that are resistant to many medications.
But finally I was able to kill them all with Flubendazole.

But Flubendazole's effect can be a bit slow to kill the flukes. In severe cases, you may have to use other stronger medication.
Also, I heard from some people who didn't succeed in treating the flukes with Flubendazole.

 

[Lajos_Detari]

I cant answer any of the questions but DANG that was a lot to read...

I guess we have to become "phamacists" in order to keep fish. LOL

I think most of the fish today are either having diseases or had been treated with large amount medications(especially for the expensive fish) just to keep them alive.

 

[itiwhetu]

I guess we have to become "phamacists" in order to keep fish. LOL

I think most of the fish today are either having diseases or had been treated with large amount medications(especially for the expensive fish) just to keep them alive.

Not a good thing, we are not that clever. Unless you have access to a laboratory with a whole lot of gear

 

[Colin_T]

Drink and spray a few cans of bug poison if you have lice. Usually works, survival chance for you is slim though

They used to dust people with DDT to make sure they didn't have lice and mites when you were arrested and put in prison.

 

[Lajos_Detari]

Not a good thing, we are not that clever. Unless you have access to a laboratory with a whole lot of gear

Actually, all the medications I mentioned are developed based on research by the manufacturers or other researchers and some have been used in the fish industry for a long time.
So, it's not difficult to use the medications.
Most importantly, you have to read & follow the treatment/dosage instructions carefully.
Never mix different medications as we don't know the reactions & side effects when they are mixed together.

The only difficulty is to decide which is the most effective medication and the least harsh to the fish.

 

[itiwhetu]

Actually, all the medications I mentioned are developed based on research by the manufacturers or other researchers and some have been used in the fish industry for a long time.
So, it's not difficult to use the medications.
Most importantly, you have to read & follow the treatment/dosage instructions carefully.
Never mix different medications as we don't know the reactions & side effects when they are mixed together.

The only difficulty is to decide which is the most effective medication and the least harsh to the fish.

The most difficult thing is making the correct diagnosis of what your fish has got.

 

[Colin_T]

The most difficult thing is making the correct diagnosis of what your fish has got.

Fish disease fall into a few main categories. There are a few exceptions but most fish health issues are caused by poor water quality, or the following pathogens.

Protozoan infections
Bacterial infections
Fungal infections
Parasitic worms and flukes.

-----------------
External protozoan infections are relatively easy to identify. They all cause fish to rub on objects. Things like white spot and velvet show up as white dots or a yellow/ gold sheen over the body and fins. Costia, Chilodonella & Trichodina cause fish to produce excess mucous over the infected area/s and it appears as cream, white or grey patches over the body.

Poor water quality will show up as a cream, white or grey film over the body and fins. With external protozoan infections like Costia, Chilodonella & Trichodina, the fish only get cream, white or grey patches where the parasites are eating the fish. Whereas poor water quality causes the fish to produce excess mucous all over its body and fins.

-----------------
Bacterial infections usually appear as red sores or inflamed areas. Sometimes with cream or white over them. The cream or white areas are excess mucous produced by the fish to protect the damaged area.

-----------------
Fungal infections
The most commonly seen fungal infection in fish is Saprolegnia and looks like white fluff sticking out from the body. Most fungal infections in fish occur in damaged/ open tissue or wounds. If the fish don't have any physical wounds, they are unlikely to get a Saprolegnia infection.

-----------------
Parasitic worms and flukes can be divided into two main groups. Intestinal worms and external flukes, which include gill flukes.

Intestinal worms usually cause fish to lose weight, but heavily infested fish can look fat like a pregnant guppy. If they have Camallanus or Capillaria thread worms, these can sometimes be seen hanging out the fish's butt and look like thin red or white hairs. Tapeworm just cause fish to lose weight over time (several months or more).

External flukes can usually be seen on the fish's body or fins.

Gill flukes will cause fish to breath heavily. Poor water quality and low oxygen levels do too. But if you test the water and it's good, and the tank and filter are clean, and there is plenty of aeration/ surface turbulence, then fish that are otherwise healthy but breathing more than normal, probably have gill flukes.

-----------------
There are a few other unusual diseases in fish including microsporidian and spironucleus infections, and black spot disease caused by parasitic worms from terrestrial animals. However, these aren't commonly seen in aquariums.

 

[itiwhetu]

Fish disease fall into a few main categories. There are a few exceptions but most fish health issues are caused by poor water quality, or the following pathogens.

Protozoan infections
Bacterial infections
Fungal infections
Parasitic worms and flukes.

-----------------
External protozoan infections are relatively easy to identify. They all cause fish to rub on objects. Things like white spot and velvet show up as white dots or a yellow/ gold sheen over the body and fins. Costia, Chilodonella & Trichodina cause fish to produce excess mucous over the infected area/s and it appears as cream, white or grey patches over the body.

Poor water quality will show up as a cream, white or grey film over the body and fins. With external protozoan infections like Costia, Chilodonella & Trichodina, the fish only get cream, white or grey patches where the parasites are eating the fish. Whereas poor water quality causes the fish to produce excess mucous all over its body and fins.

-----------------
Bacterial infections usually appear as red sores or inflamed areas. Sometimes with cream or white over them. The cream or white areas are excess mucous produced by the fish to protect the damaged area.

-----------------
Fungal infections
The most commonly seen fungal infection in fish is Saprolegnia and looks like white fluff sticking out from the body. Most fungal infections in fish occur in damaged/ open tissue or wounds. If the fish don't have any physical wounds, they are unlikely to get a Saprolegnia infection.

-----------------
Parasitic worms and flukes can be divided into two main groups. Intestinal worms and external flukes, which include gill flukes.

Intestinal worms usually cause fish to lose weight, but heavily infested fish can look fat like a pregnant guppy. If they have Camallanus or Capillaria thread worms, these can sometimes be seen hanging out the fish's butt and look like thin red or white hairs. Tapeworm just cause fish to lose weight over time (several months or more).

External flukes can usually be seen on the fish's body or fins.

Gill flukes will cause fish to breath heavily. Poor water quality and low oxygen levels do too. But if you test the water and it's good, and the tank and filter are clean, and there is plenty of aeration/ surface turbulence, then fish that are otherwise healthy but breathing more than normal, probably have gill flukes.

-----------------
There are a few other unusual diseases in fish including microsporidian and spironucleus infections, and black spot disease caused by parasitic worms from terrestrial animals. However, these aren't commonly seen in aquariums.

And the diagnosis part comes down to if you are looking at a primary or secondary infection. And then which of the multitudes of diseases does your fish have, and should you be treating an individual or everyone?

 

[Colin_T]

Most fish that have external protozoan infections don't have bacterial or fungal infections. Same with intestinal worms and external flukes.

With fish, if they have an external bacterial infection, that is usually all they have.

If they have a fungal infection, it might be linked to a bacterial infection or just a sore that got fungus.

---------------------
Depending on what the issue is, will determine if you treat the tank or isolate the fish and treat it separately. However, most fish diseases are highly contagious and are in the tank water, so removing a fish to an isolation tank is generally pointless because the disease is still in the main tank with the other fish.

I normally treat the entire tank because if one fish has an external protozoan infection like white spot, then chances are everyone in the tank will have it soon enough, assuming they don't already have it. The same deal with bacterial infections. If one fish has it, then they probably all have it.

Another reason to treat the main tank is to reduce the stress on the fish. If you chase the sick fish around the tank and then jam it into a smaller tank, you can injure, stress and weaken the already sick fish. Thus making it sicker and more likely to die.

There are a few exceptions to leaving fish in the main tank and these include:
If the sick fish is being picked on or attacked.
If the sick fish is the only one showing any signs of the disease.
If you are treating white spot or velvet by moving them each day.

But for the most part, leave the fish where they are, clean their tank and filter, and treat them all in their aquarium.

 

[Lajos_Detari]

Fish disease fall into a few main categories. There are a few exceptions but most fish health issues are caused by poor water quality, or the following pathogens.

Protozoan infections
Bacterial infections
Fungal infections
Parasitic worms and flukes.

-----------------
External protozoan infections are relatively easy to identify. They all cause fish to rub on objects. Things like white spot and velvet show up as white dots or a yellow/ gold sheen over the body and fins. Costia, Chilodonella & Trichodina cause fish to produce excess mucous over the infected area/s and it appears as cream, white or grey patches over the body.

Poor water quality will show up as a cream, white or grey film over the body and fins. With external protozoan infections like Costia, Chilodonella & Trichodina, the fish only get cream, white or grey patches where the parasites are eating the fish. Whereas poor water quality causes the fish to produce excess mucous all over its body and fins.

-----------------
Bacterial infections usually appear as red sores or inflamed areas. Sometimes with cream or white over them. The cream or white areas are excess mucous produced by the fish to protect the damaged area.

-----------------
Fungal infections
The most commonly seen fungal infection in fish is Saprolegnia and looks like white fluff sticking out from the body. Most fungal infections in fish occur in damaged/ open tissue or wounds. If the fish don't have any physical wounds, they are unlikely to get a Saprolegnia infection.

-----------------
Parasitic worms and flukes can be divided into two main groups. Intestinal worms and external flukes, which include gill flukes.

Intestinal worms usually cause fish to lose weight, but heavily infested fish can look fat like a pregnant guppy. If they have Camallanus or Capillaria thread worms, these can sometimes be seen hanging out the fish's butt and look like thin red or white hairs. Tapeworm just cause fish to lose weight over time (several months or more).

External flukes can usually be seen on the fish's body or fins.

Gill flukes will cause fish to breath heavily. Poor water quality and low oxygen levels do too. But if you test the water and it's good, and the tank and filter are clean, and there is plenty of aeration/ surface turbulence, then fish that are otherwise healthy but breathing more than normal, probably have gill flukes.

-----------------
There are a few other unusual diseases in fish including microsporidian and spironucleus infections, and black spot disease caused by parasitic worms from terrestrial animals. However, these aren't commonly seen in aquariums.

Thank you Colin for the long and useful write up!
I'll keep this as part of my fish diseases library.

 

[Unknownfuture]

The shops tend to use medications all the time and this causes the flukes and other disease organisms to become resistant to medications. When you get the fish they get sick and can't be treated because of drug resistance.

Salt and Praziquantel can be used to treat gill flukes and might be worth trying if you get some. Otherwise copper works too.

I totally agree with that comment about drug resistance. I’ve had a discus in quarantine for over a month now and it doesn’t seem to be getting any better. Simple hexamita but not working on this one. It’s important to note this fish isn’t an adult fish and in the future I’d only buy 6-8 inch discus due to the fact they have shown the resilience to grow that big. ( I haven’t given up on the fish though, I just fear the hexamita has done some permanent damage that cannot be cured, time will tell )

 

[Stan510]

Might have said it already- but I had a fish vet on youtube tell me that she finds Discus too difficult to diagnose and even if they are,its usually too late to cure them. Now breeders do it because they might have many sick fish and the cure is good for most.
I know when i see large Discus in youtube? They never grew in that aquarium..they went in large. Then died later!

 

[Stan510]

I just saw a 4 year year old video by Tazawa on youtube of Steinhart Aquarium in San Francisco. The aquarium with Cardinals and Discus? The Discus looked terrible. They looked just a few short weeks of death. The coral reef fish? Looked great. They like intense lights and other fish around them.
I see that all the time done wrong with Discus,bright lights and other fish. Just pure denial by the keepers.

 

[OliveFish05]

I just saw a 4 year year old video by Tazawa on youtube of Steinhart Aquarium in San Francisco. The aquarium with Cardinals and Discus? The Discus looked terrible. They looked just a few short weeks of death. The coral reef fish? Looked great. They like intense lights and other fish around them.
I see that all the time done wrong with Discus,bright lights and other fish. Just pure denial by the keepers.

Discus do best in dimmer, tannin stained species only tanks, correct? I have only read some of the thread, but this is what I have gathered. Do they do well with low light plants, or prefer simply branchy driftwood to hide?

 

[OliveFish05]

I saw this planted discus tank at this local miniature rescue zoo in my area. It looks like there are fry in there. What are your thoughts on this?