Debate topic : do fish have emotions?

[reptilenotfish]

Wow, I love this kind of topic. I read a book titled Mama's Last Hug by an ethologist named Frans Dewall. The book was on if animals have emotions. Most of it was on corvids and primates (go figure), but He did briefly discuss a school of tiger barbs that he had kept. He saw behaviors that he saw as indicating emotion, and he concluded (from other sources as well) that it was likely that emotions are a homologous trait in the evolutionary tree.

I don't really know why people bristle at the thought of emotions in animals different from us, no one will deny that dogs feel emotions, but fish, they are considered different, despite the same amount of time to diversify and develop. Heck, a large motivator to go to a piscitarian diet is the misguided notion that fish feel no pain and might as well just be wiggling meat bags. I'm watching the goalpost move at lightspeed . I'm predicting it's a matter of time before we consider even arthropods as capable of emotion. After all, what else should you conclude when animals release the same chemicals we do when they are exposed to an environment where we would also release those chemicals.

 

[Slaphppy7]

After all, what else should you conclude when animals release the same chemicals we do when they are exposed to an environment where we would also release those chemicals.

An autonomic response.
Emotion is not involved with the lower vertebrates.

 

[emeraldking]

Debate topic : do fish have emotions?​

I'm positive that they do. You can see that in their behavior and the intensity of their coloration.

 

[reptilenotfish]

An autonomic response.
Emotion is not involved with the lower vertebrates

Lower Vertebrates? They've had the same time to evolve as us, and pressures just as demanding. If you claim that it's simply a robotic response, wouldn't you have to apply that to the "higher vertebrates" as well?

Here's an article that I think is interesting and shows a few examples of behavior that indicates emotion and advanced cognition.

Fish Have Feelings, Too

Fish have emotions, social needs, and intelligence. Meet scientists exploring the inner lives of our aquatic friends.

www.pbs.org

 

[Slaphppy7]

10 Facts that Prove Fish are Highly Intelligent and Emotional Creatures

Did you know fish can feel depression? A viral TikTok viewed over 20 million times recently shed light on the issue of fish feelings.

www.onegreenplanet.org

Near the bottom of the above article:

What You Can Do
The suffering that fish are currently subjected to is overwhelming and beyond comprehension, but we can change this reality. Please consider taking the following actions:

1. Reduce or eliminate your consumption of fish products. Plant-based versions of fish are readily available from companies like Sophie’s Kitchen and Good Catch.
2. Don’t participate in sportfishing. If a fishing-related event is taking place in your area, politely contact its organizers and sponsors to explain why angling is inhumane.
3. Don’t purchase fish from pet stores. If you want a fish as a companion, you can adopt one in need of a home. You can find needy animals on Petfinder.com or contact your local animal shelter and ask it to notify you when it has fish available for adoption.
4. If you suspect that fishes are being neglected or mistreated, direct their guardians to resources about proper fish care. If this fails, report the abuse to your local humane society or animal control agency.

As Linda Richman would say...."I've given you a topic....DISCUSS!!

 

[Byron]

Here's an article that I think is interesting and shows a few examples of behavior that indicates emotion and advanced cognition.

Fish Have Feelings, Too

Fish have emotions, social needs, and intelligence. Meet scientists exploring the inner lives of our aquatic friends.

www.pbs.org

I read this, and I do not consider any of the examples of fish behaviour cited in the article to indicate it being an emotion. They are the fish's response to "x" which may be due to their genetics, or having learned this or that. I am not denying that fish may feel emotions, but there is no proof they do in this article. As Dr. Monks said in my earlier post, most of what aquarists take as emotions are in fact the inherent response of the fish to a particular circumstance.

 

[SomethingsFishy24]

I feel fish can express emotion to a degree. I do not know to what extent but they have at least some primitive emotion, or maybe basic emotions. I do not think they have the capacity to hold a grudge or be jealous or spiteful. I do believe they can express happiness, affection/or preference for a certain person or fish, sadness and have a panache for mischief. That is why they are so fun to keep and watch. They are able to bond with their keepers. My fish prefer me over my hubby, and act completely different for me. They also recognize my father in law when he comes over, why, because he takes care of them while on vacation. It is funny how they are when they see him, they are like "Hey! I know that guy!"

I think of fish, Cichlids have a higher level of expression. Tetras, they swim along and it seems like they have nothing going on in their little heads much of the time. Not saying they don't express, but I feel you have to watch for those qualities while cichlids come right out with it.

 

[Airwreck]

This is an interesting discussion.
Unfortunately everybody who thinks fish have emotions is anthropomorphizing the fish.

 

[Airwreck]

Humans believe they know it all, but it may also be humans that know the least

-Amy Kieran

The greatest philosopher of all time

Really?? Then why have I never heard her name? When I know all three of these guys
Socrates, Plato, or Aristotle

 

[Airwreck]

Oops forgot to add..
If fish have emotions..
Then this is true
God is love
Love is blind
Stevie wonder is blind
Therefore Stevie Wonder is God

 

[jaylach]

Oops forgot to add..
If fish have emotions..
Then this is true
God is love
Love is blind
Stevie wonder is blind
Therefore Stevie Wonder is God

LOL! I love it but your logic is flawed. As I follow it Stevie Wonder would be love, not God. The logic problem is that you assume only one aspect for each when each can have many aspects.

Do I believe that fish have emotions? Yes I do but that does not mean that it is in the same fashion as humans. Most people will agree that dogs and cats show emotion but what about birds? Most would say no but science believes that they do. Take my cockatiel for example. It is widely accepted that the position of the head crest indicates the emotional disposition of the critter.

Now take the situation I saw with my formally sick pleco (happy to say that he seems fine now) and the two tetras. Both tetras were under the exact same circumstance. If their actions are nothing but instinct both tetras should have reacted in the same manner but they did not. One wanted to attack the sick pleco and the other protected the pleco. This does not seem like instinctive reactions.

(chuckle) Actually I have zero idea what I'm talking about but it is a fun discussion.

 

[enricosonic]

Well Stevie Wonder isn’t God no matter the logic. But that man’s musical output around 1971-1973 got close.

 

[woyzeck]

I want to believe they do, I hope they do, but I suspect the answer is in the fact a fish merely follows a basic chemical law which dictates their needs, behaviour and processes. A bit like an telephone scammer whom I asked ''why do you prey on the vulnerable and ignorant' and he said - 'if it feels good at the time, I do it''.

 

[GaryE]

An exercise I value is flipping arguments.

Do humans have emotions? Are emotions simply brain chemistry reactions to stimuli? Clearly, most of us have brains that process those stimuli and think about them, and I don't think we'll ever see fish turning into Goths or watching Hallmark romance movies for satisfaction. But what if all WE have is basic biochemical, instinctive responses to social situations, and our only added wrinkle is the ability to really think about them?

People resist that possibility because of old myths about us being special, but since we're animals like all other animals, the question becomes when in the tangle of life these responses evolved, or how many times have they developed?

The outright rejection of animal emotion is a relic from the religious world views that were unquestioned until relatively recently in human history. At the same time, we don't want to fall into believing our friendly animals are human like in their reactions. Dogs are dogs, not people.

I want to believe they do, I hope they do, but I suspect the answer is in the fact a fish merely follows a basic chemical law which dictates their needs, behaviour and processes. A bit like an telephone scammer whom I asked ''why do you prey on the vulnerable and ignorant' and he said - 'if it feels good at the time, I do it''.

That telephone scammer is human. I suspect we are pretty similar to animals in our instincts and responses. I think we'd do better to study brains and chemistry to see where we're like them, than to start out with the superior view we have to see why they are like us. If you're a researcher, good luck getting funding for that one...

 

[Airwreck]

Let's take this a step further..
Do bugs have emotions?
As a beekeek..I know when my bees are happy.. they tell me.. both in sound and behavior.
Also know when my bees are angry and pissed off. Again they tell me..along with stinging my butt.
Is this emotions or instinct behavior?