Humans believe they know it all, but it may also be humans that know the least
-Amy Kieran
The greatest philosopher of all time
Debate topic : do fish have emotions?
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Humans believe they know it all, but it may also be humans that know the least
-Amy Kieran
The greatest philosopher of all time
Well yes I think my comment was slightly too literal, it was only meant to be applied to pigs and dogs, I also completely dismissed other cultures cuisines, which is a good point.
Ide also like to touch on a topic stated in the previous post, fish feeling pain.
We all are fully aware that fish feel pain. Can other fish feel another fishes pain?
And do certain fish feel more pain than others?
(Not a fish I know) but I remember reading somewhere that lobsters don’t feel pain
We all are fully aware that fish feel pain. Can other fish feel another fishes pain?
And do certain fish feel more pain than others?
(Not a fish I know) but I remember reading somewhere that lobsters don’t feel pain
D
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I believe that fish do have and feel emotion...afterall, if they are not happy in the water that you provide for them, they show signs of stress, if they have injuries, they show signs of pain and distress, and if they are being bullied, they show fear and that fear often shows in their behaviour - to hide away and to stop eating
So there has to be a measure of emotional reaction for fish to act or behave according to what is going on in their lives at any given time.
As for other fish picking up on another fish's emotional state, yes they do.....if you watch your aquatic hooligans long enough and closely enough, they will leave a fish alone and move away from it when that fish is dying...or when one fish is not feeling well, other fish will encourage it to keep going and they also protect that fish from any perceived predators....that only happens when animals can pick up and interpret another animal's feelings and emotions
So there has to be a measure of emotional reaction for fish to act or behave according to what is going on in their lives at any given time.
As for other fish picking up on another fish's emotional state, yes they do.....if you watch your aquatic hooligans long enough and closely enough, they will leave a fish alone and move away from it when that fish is dying...or when one fish is not feeling well, other fish will encourage it to keep going and they also protect that fish from any perceived predators....that only happens when animals can pick up and interpret another animal's feelings and emotions
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Interesting topic and it fits well with what happened tonight with a tank I'm still in the process of cycling. The tank has a large, for the tank size, fake tree trunk. To complete the startup cycle I removed the trunk so I more easily vacuum the substrat. The pleco and black skirt tetras in the tank REALLY like the fake trunk and really seem upset that it is gone.
I don't know if it is actually emotion but they are aware. The pleco no longer mouth climbs the glass that faces me as it usually did. Still climbs glass but not the surface that faces me. The tetras would follow my finger around if I placed it on the glass and moved it around. Since I removed the trunk the tetras will no longer follow my finger. They won't run away but they will no longer follow my finger; they just turn around and face away.
Is that emotion? I don't know but I feel it has to, at least, be awareness. Does awareness mean the ability to have emotion? I have no clue but I DO believe emotion is not possible without awareness. They really seem to be mad at me just going by the change of behavior. Going with the thought that anger is an emotion and considering Occam's Razor (look up the razor if you don't know it) the simplest answer is that, yes, they have emotion. Is it the same way we, as humans, experience emotion? I doubt it but that does not mean that they don't have their own set of emotions.
BTW, Occam's Razor, in basic terms, just states that the simplest solution is usually the correct. Oh, why not?
Here is a wiki link for Occam's razor.
en.wikipedia.org
I don't know if it is actually emotion but they are aware. The pleco no longer mouth climbs the glass that faces me as it usually did. Still climbs glass but not the surface that faces me. The tetras would follow my finger around if I placed it on the glass and moved it around. Since I removed the trunk the tetras will no longer follow my finger. They won't run away but they will no longer follow my finger; they just turn around and face away.
Is that emotion? I don't know but I feel it has to, at least, be awareness. Does awareness mean the ability to have emotion? I have no clue but I DO believe emotion is not possible without awareness. They really seem to be mad at me just going by the change of behavior. Going with the thought that anger is an emotion and considering Occam's Razor (look up the razor if you don't know it) the simplest answer is that, yes, they have emotion. Is it the same way we, as humans, experience emotion? I doubt it but that does not mean that they don't have their own set of emotions.
BTW, Occam's Razor, in basic terms, just states that the simplest solution is usually the correct. Oh, why not?
Here is a wiki link for Occam's razor.Occam's razor - Wikipedia
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Interesting topic and it fits well with what happened tonight with a tank I'm still in the process of cycling. The tank has a large, for the tank size, fake tree trunk. To complete the startup cycle I removed the trunk so I more easily vacuum the substrat. The pleco and black skirt tetras in the tank REALLY like the fake trunk and really seem upset that it is gone.
I don't know if it is actually emotion but they are aware. The pleco no longer mouth climbs the glass that faces me as it usually did. Still climbs glass but not the surface that faces me. The tetras would follow my finger around if I placed it on the glass and moved it around. Since I removed the trunk the tetras will no longer follow my finger. They won't run away but they will no longer follow my finger; they just turn around and face away.
Is that emotion? I don't know but I feel it has to, at least, be awareness. Does awareness mean the ability to have emotion? I have no clue but I DO believe emotion is not possible without awareness. They really seem to be mad at me just going by the change of behavior. Going with the thought that anger is an emotion and considering Occam's Razor (look up the razor if you don't know it) the simplest answer is that, yes, they have emotion. Is it the same way we, as humans, experience emotion? I doubt it but that does not mean that they don't have their own set of emotions.
BTW, Occam's Razor, in basic terms, just states that the simplest solution is usually the correct. Oh, why not?
Occam's razor - Wikipedia
Interesting, to me a state of awareness and the ability to change actions and behaviour is definitely a show of emotion
There's a significant difference between emotion, instinct, and conditioning. Depending on your level in the evolutionary scale, you may possess on, two, or even all three of these attributes.
Fish do not possess emotion; they are not physiologically capable to do so.
Fish do not possess emotion; they are not physiologically capable to do so.
What makes you say this? Can you give examples of how fish don’t show emotion?
Just lots of examples and experience of people in this read stating their opinion, it would be nice to hear the other side of the argument too
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Well, before I can give an answer, I have to ask how you define "emotion." That can mean a lot of different things.
Well this is the definition on Google
a strong feeling deriving from one's circumstances, mood, or relationships with others.
I was going to ask the same, define emotion.
This is just my opinion... intelligence and emotion can be connected in ways in humans. To make it brief, do I think fish feel sadness or happiness (emotions) as we humans do? No. They are intelligent in a survival way, they can hide from a predator or when frightened, now is fright an emotion or an instinct? When they act healthy and are swimming around, we as humans will assume they are happy when this is what and how they were designed to be. I can go on and on but that's basically the camp I'm in.
This is just my opinion... intelligence and emotion can be connected in ways in humans. To make it brief, do I think fish feel sadness or happiness (emotions) as we humans do? No. They are intelligent in a survival way, they can hide from a predator or when frightened, now is fright an emotion or an instinct? When they act healthy and are swimming around, we as humans will assume they are happy when this is what and how they were designed to be. I can go on and on but that's basically the camp I'm in.
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An interesting debate here: https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/hot-thought/201711/do-animals-have-emotions-debate
Call me "the skeptic"....
Call me "the skeptic"....
I wouldn’t even go as far to say ‘skeptic’ I don’t think there’s rule written in stone when it comes to this topic, or enough scientific evidence that can factor in every fish
I once had a psychology lecture that stated scientific research means nothing (now hear me out)
If I sit by a pond and witness swans going into the pond for 100 years and see that only white swans go into the pond, then surely only white swans exist.
Until the day I see a black swan go into the pond, my 100 years of research mean nothing.
The point this is trying to make is, unless you document and study every instance and event ever occurred (which is obviously impossible) then you can never be sure
So, until I take a bite of the Moon, I can assume it's made of cheese...
I don’t know if you chaps have Wallace and gromit but they basically proved it’s cheese
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