Coronavirus...post your thoughts here...

[Tacocat]

It's not that I don't want to give a straight answer. It's that it really doesn't matter when it.comes to spreading this virus.

The one aspect of this that is greatly annoying is these "experts" claiming their knowledge is somehow superior to millions of years of evolutionary process. Even in the face of failure, they stick to their guns.

Who is really to say if it really does reduce severity? What is the benchmark? How do people know they wouldn't have had a mild case anyways? It would seem that folks that are meant to die from something like this are dying, regardless of vax status.

The one thing I will agree is that in some people, the symptoms are so benign that they are effectively becoming "super spreaders", because they just don't know. Kinda like what happened to me. I have had a lot of time now to think on it, and I am no longer angry about it. No matter what "could have", it happened. I'm just glad my family and I are still alive.

I know of vaxxed folk who had a way worse experience than I did/am. I know of unvaxxed folk who got less than a cold. You don't know how your body is going to react to this thing until it has to react to it.

It's a personal choice thing for anyone to get the shot. Nobody should be forced. It is unproven at best, despite all the propaganda. Since the death rate from it hovers at around 1.6% here in the states, the vast majority of people were going to suffer mild illness, just as was suggested at the onset. With or without the shots. Some folks do their best to avoid having to go through stuff like illness. It's silly really. Nature doesn't care what you try to intervene with. If it is meant to happen, it is going to. This is what nature is saying to the entire globe right now. No matter how hard you fight it, you'll never escape it. Spiritualists will tell you that we call into our lives the things we fear the most to learn from them. Naturopaths will tell you that you can be in a room full of full blown illness patients, unprotected, and if you are not meant to have it, you won't get it. This too has been proven, time and time again, by folks having this thing in the same house, but others not catching it.

As for stealing genetic code from HIV/AIDS, how do you suppose this would happen without human intervention? Think on that for a bit.

This virus was engineered to do exactly what it is doing. It's a man made animal that was let out of its cage.

Protect yourself however you see fit. Just know that nobody knows the autoimmune issues that are going to come down the pipe in x-amount of time teaching your immune system to attack healthy cells that are producing a viral rna protein. They will tell you nothing will happen, but if they were honest about it, you wouldn't do it. Anything your government have to force people to do, no matter what it is, is cause for alarm.

Ok. Alright. I'm going to have to step in and correct you right there. If the world was blowing up and the gov was telling you to get in this spaceship and go to space or you'll die. Will you do it? If there was an outbreak of the plague that is SCIENTIFICALLY PROVEN to be extremely deadly and the gov gave you a weapon to fight it would you take it? This is the same sort of mentality for COVID and the vaccine. You keep arguing that: "Oh but I was fine Oh I know vaccinated people who got really sick and Oh I know unvaccinated people who got mild symptoms" You keep falling for a logical fallacy. You don't account for the people that don't fall into these categories that you set out. You also don't tell us about the age groups of the severe cases people. If they were old, then it makes sense. Young unvaccinated people will get mild symptoms as well. It all depends on the context. There's something called the Simpson's Fallacy that isn't quite related to this topic but I'll put it anyway. REMINDER that the vaccine is SCIENTIFICALLY PROVEN to be effective against the virus. Just because oh some people get it and oh some people don't doesn't mean it doesn't work. Back to Simpson's Fallacy(FAABDCAAFDC BBB). Basically,(Source) on social media some news site found that more vaccinated people were dying than unvaccinated. Now, because we know that the vaccine actually helps reduce deaths, some people were suspicious of this. They found that this was because the group that the study was looking at was ages 10-59, which is quite broad. When they looked closer at more specific age groups, they found that it turned out when you put together all the age groups across a broad range, some statistics would flip around. In this case, deaths(the study was focusing on all deaths, not just covid). When you put all these together, you find that because some stats cancel out others, and that the unvaccinated people are safer than vaccinated is completely false. Due to the fact that more unvaccinated people are younger and more vaccinated people are older, and the fact that younger people are less likely to die than older people, this statistic is completely null and void.

It's fallacies like these that completely nullify arguments like yours. NOW ON TO THE SCIENCE
You said that people can be in the same house and not get sick. Well, sometimes you just don't. Sometimes it's just luck. and sometimes, THE PEOPLE ARE FREAKING VACCINATED. Ahem, to simplify, all the vaccine does is just send in mRNA that tells your body to build virus proteins, and then the body recognizes it and destroys the proteins, while at the same time memorizing it in its database of B-cells and T-cells. The reason some people get side-effects is because the body overreacts a bit, and normally it isn't too overreactive, and it just shows itself as mild cold symptoms. I'm assuming you know all this because you're "a medical person or something or other". However, the fact you don't want to get vaccinated astonishes me. I'm trying to be civil here. You also said that they're going to send in mRNA to tell your body to kill itself. WHY IN THE WORLD WOULD ANYBODY DO THAT. mRNA proteins don't come out of nowhere. Remember that when the body interacts with the antigen, it needs the dendritic cell to bring the antigen to the t cells. If there's no existing T-cell to bring it to(basically T-cells are constantly being made[the body puts together random combinations of proteins that new T-cells can recognize and makes them, which means you have a response to all possible pathogens it's really hard to explain], and in order for the body to not get blown up from the inside, they are put through some tests to see if they react to bodily cells. If they react, then they are killed.), then nothing happens. mRNA vaccines are not going to start autoimmune diseases. If the body had a T-cell that responded to that specific antigen, then it would have attacked the body long ago. THINK!

And the last part about people trying to outthink millions of years of genetics. Yeah, that's bs. We aren't trying to outthink the immune system, we're trying to improve it. We're training the immune system. Using some of the genetic code of HIV/AIDS viruses is just to help us make the mRNA more efficient. We can't manually code mRNA, because that would take forever. And about trying to escape the virus, also remember that we've defeated many, many pathogens before(polio, smallpox, etc.) and that they've been completely eradicated. The only reason we keep weakened versions in labs is just in case we encounter them again. And the fact that you're arguing that we can't fight off viruses is total bs.

To conclude, you're wrong, everything I've written above disproves it. This took a considerable toll on my sanity.

 

[FishHobby99]

Thank you for boldly going where I feared to tread. Kudos! Truth!

 

[WhistlingBadger]

This took a considerable toll on my sanity.

That is why I so rarely debate these things, unless I have some sort of personal horse in the race. My sanity needs all the help it can get.

 

[wgoldfarb]

Ok. Alright. I'm going to have to step in and correct you right there. If the world was blowing up and the gov was telling you to get in this spaceship and go to space or you'll die. Will you do it? If there was an outbreak of the plague that is SCIENTIFICALLY PROVEN to be extremely deadly and the gov gave you a weapon to fight it would you take it? This is the same sort of mentality for COVID and the vaccine. You keep arguing that: "Oh but I was fine Oh I know vaccinated people who got really sick and Oh I know unvaccinated people who got mild symptoms" You keep falling for a logical fallacy. You don't account for the people that don't fall into these categories that you set out. You also don't tell us about the age groups of the severe cases people. If they were old, then it makes sense. Young unvaccinated people will get mild symptoms as well. It all depends on the context. There's something called the Simpson's Fallacy that isn't quite related to this topic but I'll put it anyway. REMINDER that the vaccine is SCIENTIFICALLY PROVEN to be effective against the virus. Just because oh some people get it and oh some people don't doesn't mean it doesn't work. Back to Simpson's Fallacy(FAABDCAAFDC BBB). Basically,(Source) on social media some news site found that more vaccinated people were dying than unvaccinated. Now, because we know that the vaccine actually helps reduce deaths, some people were suspicious of this. They found that this was because the group that the study was looking at was ages 10-59, which is quite broad. When they looked closer at more specific age groups, they found that it turned out when you put together all the age groups across a broad range, some statistics would flip around. In this case, deaths(the study was focusing on all deaths, not just covid). When you put all these together, you find that because some stats cancel out others, and that the unvaccinated people are safer than vaccinated is completely false. Due to the fact that more unvaccinated people are younger and more vaccinated people are older, and the fact that younger people are less likely to die than older people, this statistic is completely null and void.

It's fallacies like these that completely nullify arguments like yours. NOW ON TO THE SCIENCE
You said that people can be in the same house and not get sick. Well, sometimes you just don't. Sometimes it's just luck. and sometimes, THE PEOPLE ARE FREAKING VACCINATED. Ahem, to simplify, all the vaccine does is just send in mRNA that tells your body to build virus proteins, and then the body recognizes it and destroys the proteins, while at the same time memorizing it in its database of B-cells and T-cells. The reason some people get side-effects is because the body overreacts a bit, and normally it isn't too overreactive, and it just shows itself as mild cold symptoms. I'm assuming you know all this because you're "a medical person or something or other". However, the fact you don't want to get vaccinated astonishes me. I'm trying to be civil here. You also said that they're going to send in mRNA to tell your body to kill itself. WHY IN THE WORLD WOULD ANYBODY DO THAT. mRNA proteins don't come out of nowhere. Remember that when the body interacts with the antigen, it needs the dendritic cell to bring the antigen to the t cells. If there's no existing T-cell to bring it to(basically T-cells are constantly being made[the body puts together random combinations of proteins that new T-cells can recognize and makes them, which means you have a response to all possible pathogens it's really hard to explain], and in order for the body to not get blown up from the inside, they are put through some tests to see if they react to bodily cells. If they react, then they are killed.), then nothing happens. mRNA vaccines are not going to start autoimmune diseases. If the body had a T-cell that responded to that specific antigen, then it would have attacked the body long ago. THINK!

And the last part about people trying to outthink millions of years of genetics. Yeah, that's bs. We aren't trying to outthink the immune system, we're trying to improve it. We're training the immune system. Using some of the genetic code of HIV/AIDS viruses is just to help us make the mRNA more efficient. We can't manually code mRNA, because that would take forever. And about trying to escape the virus, also remember that we've defeated many, many pathogens before(polio, smallpox, etc.) and that they've been completely eradicated. The only reason we keep weakened versions in labs is just in case we encounter them again. And the fact that you're arguing that we can't fight off viruses is total bs.

To conclude, you're wrong, everything I've written above disproves it. This took a considerable toll on my sanity.

Very very well said. Thank you for being a voice of reason. And, I might add, mRNA vaccine technology is insanely cool.

 

[Tacocat]

(basically T-cells are constantly being made[the body puts together random combinations of proteins that new T-cells can recognize and makes them, which means you have a response to all possible pathogens it's really hard to explain], and in order for the body to not get blown up from the inside, they are put through some tests to see if they react to bodily cells. If they react, then they are killed.)

Here's a really good video from where I got a lot of my information. Some other sources include: Bio teacher(she has a PHD and works at a uni), Wikipedia, several articles, a book, and this great video(The aforementioned video if you're confused)

 

[NannaLou]

Who is really to say if it really does reduce severity? What is the benchmark?

On 20th January 2021, 1820 people died of Covid-19 In the UK. Yesterday it was 35.

After the huge vaccination campaign I’d have thought the numbers proved the effectiveness of the vaccine.

 

[FishHobby99]

It has indeed. Of interest & not surprising is vaccination rates are higher in the Blue States (Democrats US) & serious illness & deaths significantly lower than in the Red States (Republican). What a shame that a life saving vaccine has become politicized . Imagine if that happened with polio, smallpox etc.

 

[xxBarneyxx]

After skimming through a few of these posts I have decided it is safer to never, ever, open this thread again.

One thing that Covid 19 has really reinforced for me is that there are a lot of unstable and/or selfish people all over the world.

 

[Fishiemang]

I have still seen nothing here that has a benchmark.

The benchmark would be, since every single person will react differently to this particular virus (since this is the current one), would be everyone being somehow able to get the virus in their system, react to it, wipe the slate clean, reinfect after injected with "science" and watch. That would be a true benchmark. Anything else is speculation.

Science is nothing more than creating the conditions needed to come to the anticipated outcome you seek.

That's it.

Does it work? Sure. That's how we learn. But it is a false scaffold. It doesn't take into account the complete randomness of nature. But when you wonder if a steel beam has a certain amount of strength, you set up an experiment designed to test out said strength, and when it holds, you conclude that your "science" was correct, thus a false benchmark.

As for the deaths in the UK, think about it like this....

When those 1800 people died, that pool of people who couldn't fend off this virus died. Here is where some more "science" comes in.

Say you have a room full of 5,000 individuals. These individuals cover all gaps, age, weight, immunocompromised ect, and you introduce the virus into the room. 1800 of these people succumb to the virus in short order. You document who they were based on age, weight, immunocompromised ect. You notice now that the people who were dying were elderly, fat and immunocompromised, but the seemingly healthy people are recovering. You then introduce a chemical concoction into this environment of 3200 remaining participants. No data taken at first on who has already had this virus. Then, you notice your death rate drop, and you attribute your improvement in recovery to the chemical concoction you introduced.

Slipperier still, you don't take genetics into account, and hydration status, inflammatory response and all the other biological markers that make up a living being as complex as a human being.

You then declare thay your chemical concoction worked. Based on the fact that only 100 people died after.

This is the "science" they are shoving down your neck.

It's more like "hit-and-miss" darts.

You can google whatever ya like to feel better about your choices in life. These mRNA "vaccines" have been around about 30 years now, give or take. They didn't work when they started messin with them in the 90's. En mass. It's a pretty crazy idea, but, full of unknowns. Even the guy who invented them is against their use. Think about that.

This shot is a bio-test on the entire population.

The BEST method of inoculation is, and always has been, through natural pathways into the body.

These same "scientists" are telling people that the only way to obtain protection is artificially via an unnatural method, and that natural immunity does not exist.

Sheep to slaughter.

If you choose to believe these rather arrogant individuals, you're free to do so. You can hinge your hope on a scientist, vs your own body and it's wisdom. That's cool.

I don't care what folks do. It's your life.

Just imagine how stupid the people who got vaccinated, then drew their last breath from the very thing they were told they were protected from, in that last moment.

Vaccinated people are dying from this. They are dying because they are still in the group of people who would have died from it without intervention. People are still getting very sick from this. Vaccinated even.

The one thing that people are missing, is that the vast majority of those who are spreading it, and being infected by it, are now vaccinated. The people dying from it are vaccinated.

They keep belching out propaganda about unvaxxed people. When you have less than 15% of the population without antibodies, whether artificial or natural, and you see a flare up, you cannot put forth that the unvaxxed folk are causing harm.

The reinfection rate is probably the lowest I have ever seen. Where I live, there have been 100,000 known "breakthough" cases. Since this vaccination campaign started.

There have been less than 10,000 reinfection cases since the pandemic began.

This is one state, in one country.

My money right now is nowhere near this propaganda "science" and is all about natural science. The proof of the puddin is in the eatin. It would appear that folks who have gotten this bug, and recovered, are far more protected than those who have opted for artificial intervention. By 10 to 1.

 

[Fishiemang]

It has indeed. Of interest & not surprising is vaccination rates are higher in the Blue States (Democrats US) & serious illness & deaths significantly lower than in the Red States (Republican). What a shame that a life saving vaccine has become politicized . Imagine if that happened with polio, smallpox etc.

You may want to go and take a closer look at your data. Your outcome is inaccurate.

Right now, Florida has the lowest infection rate in the country. This is a what color state?

Minnesota has the highest infection rate. This is a what color state?

It's CNN propaganda like this that should not be perpetuated.

 

[Fishiemang]

After skimming through a few of these posts I have decided it is safer to never, ever, open this thread again.

One thing that Covid 19 has really reinforced for me is that there are a lot of unstable and/or selfish people all over the world.

So......

I can expect to.come to your house, remove any and everything I like, without any intervention from you? I mean, you wouldn't want to be selfish now, would you?

Or better yet, I can take away your ability to earn a living for yourself, because I don't agree with a choice you make?

It is NOT a selfish thing to preserve ones own individual freedom.

It is, however, extremely selfish to expect someone else to bend to your will. No matter your motives.

Change your thinking. You got it backwards.

 

[Fishiemang]

Here's a really good video from where I got a lot of my information. Some other sources include: Bio teacher(she has a PHD and works at a uni), Wikipedia, several articles, a book, and this great video(The aforementioned video if you're confused)

Immunology and bio-chemistry are very interesting no doubt.

My nephew is a bio-chemist. He studies this stuff like most religion.

Your extremely simplified regurgitation is, lacking. It is a complex process, no doubt, but the whole random slamming of chemicals and stuff is essentially what happens......if you read biased Wikipedia and Google....

The process the body uses is far more complex.

Btw...just because someone works at a uni (I assume short for university), doesn't mean much. Just had a cat with impressive credentials say it is ok to be sexually attracted to children. He no longer works for a uni......you'd be amazed at the nut jobs they have at these institutions these days.

However, immunity is based on protein synthesis. But is can be understood in another way.

Your body is of a negative charge. Pathogens that infect you are of a positive charge.

You factor in things like pH, hydration, genetics, diet, and available pool of amino acids to pull from, and yes there is a lot more (remember, the body is a machine evolved over millions of years) that scientists are still discovering daily.

If you're meant to die from anything, it is going to happen. No amount of current science can stop that.

 

[FishHobby99]

After skimming through a few of these posts I have decided it is safer to never, ever, open this thread again.

One thing that Covid 19 has really reinforced for me is that there are a lot of unstable and/or selfish people all over the world.

Not a bad idea. You can easily disable emails on any thread. I’ve done it many times.

 

[Fishiemang]

Ok. Alright. I'm going to have to step in and correct you right there. If the world was blowing up and the gov was telling you to get in this spaceship and go to space or you'll die. Will you do it? If there was an outbreak of the plague that is SCIENTIFICALLY PROVEN to be extremely deadly and the gov gave you a weapon to fight it would you take it? This is the same sort of mentality for COVID and the vaccine. You keep arguing that: "Oh but I was fine Oh I know vaccinated people who got really sick and Oh I know unvaccinated people who got mild symptoms" You keep falling for a logical fallacy. You don't account for the people that don't fall into these categories that you set out. You also don't tell us about the age groups of the severe cases people. If they were old, then it makes sense. Young unvaccinated people will get mild symptoms as well. It all depends on the context. There's something called the Simpson's Fallacy that isn't quite related to this topic but I'll put it anyway. REMINDER that the vaccine is SCIENTIFICALLY PROVEN to be effective against the virus. Just because oh some people get it and oh some people don't doesn't mean it doesn't work. Back to Simpson's Fallacy(FAABDCAAFDC BBB). Basically,(Source) on social media some news site found that more vaccinated people were dying than unvaccinated. Now, because we know that the vaccine actually helps reduce deaths, some people were suspicious of this. They found that this was because the group that the study was looking at was ages 10-59, which is quite broad. When they looked closer at more specific age groups, they found that it turned out when you put together all the age groups across a broad range, some statistics would flip around. In this case, deaths(the study was focusing on all deaths, not just covid). When you put all these together, you find that because some stats cancel out others, and that the unvaccinated people are safer than vaccinated is completely false. Due to the fact that more unvaccinated people are younger and more vaccinated people are older, and the fact that younger people are less likely to die than older people, this statistic is completely null and void.

It's fallacies like these that completely nullify arguments like yours. NOW ON TO THE SCIENCE
You said that people can be in the same house and not get sick. Well, sometimes you just don't. Sometimes it's just luck. and sometimes, THE PEOPLE ARE FREAKING VACCINATED. Ahem, to simplify, all the vaccine does is just send in mRNA that tells your body to build virus proteins, and then the body recognizes it and destroys the proteins, while at the same time memorizing it in its database of B-cells and T-cells. The reason some people get side-effects is because the body overreacts a bit, and normally it isn't too overreactive, and it just shows itself as mild cold symptoms. I'm assuming you know all this because you're "a medical person or something or other". However, the fact you don't want to get vaccinated astonishes me. I'm trying to be civil here. You also said that they're going to send in mRNA to tell your body to kill itself. WHY IN THE WORLD WOULD ANYBODY DO THAT. mRNA proteins don't come out of nowhere. Remember that when the body interacts with the antigen, it needs the dendritic cell to bring the antigen to the t cells. If there's no existing T-cell to bring it to(basically T-cells are constantly being made[the body puts together random combinations of proteins that new T-cells can recognize and makes them, which means you have a response to all possible pathogens it's really hard to explain], and in order for the body to not get blown up from the inside, they are put through some tests to see if they react to bodily cells. If they react, then they are killed.), then nothing happens. mRNA vaccines are not going to start autoimmune diseases. If the body had a T-cell that responded to that specific antigen, then it would have attacked the body long ago. THINK!

And the last part about people trying to outthink millions of years of genetics. Yeah, that's bs. We aren't trying to outthink the immune system, we're trying to improve it. We're training the immune system. Using some of the genetic code of HIV/AIDS viruses is just to help us make the mRNA more efficient. We can't manually code mRNA, because that would take forever. And about trying to escape the virus, also remember that we've defeated many, many pathogens before(polio, smallpox, etc.) and that they've been completely eradicated. The only reason we keep weakened versions in labs is just in case we encounter them again. And the fact that you're arguing that we can't fight off viruses is total bs.

To conclude, you're wrong, everything I've written above disproves it. This took a considerable toll on my sanity.

What a handful.

Nobody said more people were dying vaccinated than not. If this is what you read, I invite you to get new spetacles.

The reason the vaccination death rate, where I live, is currently higher than the other is not because of the vaccine. Pay close attention now....

It's higher because the people getting vaccinated FIRST were higher risk of death.

See how easy that was?

Has zero to do with the shot (I won't get into the high amount of VAERS reports), and more to do with just how **** works. I don't need a regurgitated something someone else said to convince me. I understand immunology and pathology. I know how it works.

People are so focused on the death.

The plague still exists, btw. People get it, and die from it, daily. Same with a lot of other stuff you don't see in the modern world. You gotta look to places where they don't have modern medicine, and hygiene I might add.

You'd do yourself a favor to pick up a book, and put down Google and Wikipedia.

The people who were meant to die if they contract COVID will die from it, regardless of whether or not someone injected them. This is called life.

How many of you have had this virus? Even with a vaccination?

You're arguing from a one sided perspective. Your arguments are full of assumptions. Even the people who do know are still struggling to find a better option.

The vaccine protection fades. Go to your favorite propaganda site and read it for yourself. They'll tell ya the same.

Ya know what they won't tell you?

The immunity you get from naturally fighting off this, or any, virus is far more robust, and doesn't fade. To say otherwise flies in the face of real science.

On top of that, this virus was made in a lab. It was engineered. The very same people who made the world sick are now professing a cure. Be wary.

 

[Fishiemang]

i came here to invoke.discussion. Instead I found a vast amount of judgemental people.

To answer directly to "well did you get your shots or not", YES, I am vaccinated.

Judgement should be reserved by everyone, and open discussion encouraged. Regardless of your beliefs, you'll never learn a damn thing if you keep your mind closed to all possibilities.

It is my fault, really. I made an assumption as well. I knew better.

It won't happen again.

Enjoy your bubbles!