Can You Make A Community Of Male Bettas ?

[MaddieJ]

I do wonder, sometimes, how people think fighters live in the wild. I simply do not understand how people think these fish cannot live together. Naturally, everything fights. Humans (don't we know it.) cats, dogs, horses, birds, bees, insects, fish... It is life. We cannot escape that, ever. Torn fins and a squabble here and there is no biggy. Out of fifty fighters, if 10 die due to fights, so what? It is life, that is the way the world works. There is always one 'bully' in every school, it is no different in a fish tank. Since we humanize our fish so much, why can't 'we' see that?

Cracker, yes it can work, anyone can make it work. It just depends on how anal the fish owner is.

 

[jollysue]

The Betta you buy have not been near the wild for hundreds of years. They have been bred to fight or be a solitary ornamental fish but still with the fighting spirit they have been bred for for hundreds of years.

Would you compare a Pit Bull deliberately bred for generations to fight with a Labrador Retriever. Or would you compare a plow horse with a wild stallion.

On the same track, a corn snake and a viper are nothing alike in temperment.

On the other hand if you want to keep your Betta together, you are welcome to.

 

[Dibari]

I do wonder, sometimes, how people think fighters live in the wild. I simply do not understand how people think these fish cannot live together. Naturally, everything fights. Humans (don't we know it.) cats, dogs, horses, birds, bees, insects, fish... It is life. We cannot escape that, ever. Torn fins and a squabble here and there is no biggy. Out of fifty fighters, if 10 die due to fights, so what? It is life, that is the way the world works. There is always one 'bully' in every school, it is no different in a fish tank. Since we humanize our fish so much, why can't 'we' see that?

Cracker, yes it can work, anyone can make it work. It just depends on how anal the fish owner is.

I don't think it's a fair comparison since you just said if 10 fish die, it's okay. Bullies don't kill kids in school. They just emotionally scar and take your lunch money.
Domesticated bettas are ALOT more aggressive than wild bettas.. We all know that.. They were bred that way. . And in nature, the concentration of 50 bettas for every.. 100 gallons, lets say, is incredibly concentrated. They have no way of running away for good in our house. They're stuck in a tank. We're controlling the variables that would be open by nature.. I dislike that you would insult fish owners for caring about their fish, especially since you seem okay with dead fish just for the sake of convenience. (which is all that keeping bettas together is.. Convenience. It would look prettier, or be easier to clean, or less tanks to clean in general, or I just want to prove i can. Convenience. Selfish reasons that have nothing to do with the care for your betta..)
It's like excusing declawing because it would mean the cat wouldn't rake up your carpet, and therefor their suffering is okay, because it's more convenient.
Sorry if I'm anal, as you put it, but I dislike the idea of putting an animal in harm's way, or pain, simply for the owners convenience..
If this could be accomplished without the bettas getting hurt any more than females would in a sorority, I would be fine with it. But I don't think that's possible.
And that's all I'm going to say on the matter, because I'm sure I'll be jumped on by someone.

 

[MaddieJ]

I wasn't talking pet shop veil tails. I did not simply type down the first thing that came into my head. I am fully aware of the difference between pet shop and their ancestors.

 

[MaddieJ]

"I don't think it's a fair comparison since you just said if 10 fish die, it's okay. Bullies don't kill kids in school. They just emotionally scar and take your lunch money."

How blinded you are to the real world.

 

[Dibari]

"I don't think it's a fair comparison since you just said if 10 fish die, it's okay. Bullies don't kill kids in school. They just emotionally scar and take your lunch money."

How blinded you are to the real world.

.. I'm sorry? What on earth does this mean? And even so, if you want to make that comparison, is it OKAY for bullies to kill kids in school, simply because it's "Human" nature, and is therefor comparable to 'Betta' nature? How does this comparison make sense? It doesn't.
Humans aren't bettas and should never be compared.
Bettas are ours to take care of. They rely on us for proper care, for us to make the right and responsible decision regaring their care, health, and housing.
I don't think the loss of any betta is okay if it means the tank setup 'works out'. To me that's not 'working out'. You didn't address any of my other points as well.

 

[jollysue]

Well it is your dollar. If you want to spend your money on dead Bettas and meds at least fight them and win money on the bets. Expensive hundred dollar Thailand Plakads will not do better in your senario. I disagree that we just put things together regardless of the consequences because it is natural. But they are your fish and it is your money.

Things happen. Yes they do, but putting pit bulls in a ring together will have a logical outcome in most instances. As a matter of fact letting a mountain lion or a Grizzlie run the streets will have a predictable outcome. We are expected to use out "little grey cells" to make reasonable decisions. Thay is how we are allowed to live together, by following some civilized and reasoned choices that protect others.

 

[andywg]

I don't think the loss of any betta is okay if it means the tank setup 'works out'. To me that's not 'working out'. You didn't address any of my other points as well.

How about the culling of large numbers of fish by breeders just so you can have the fancier colours? Is that sort of loss ok? Considering how inhumane many large scale breeding operations are when it comes to culling, the keeping of some adult males together in a suitably sized tank with appropriate monitoring seems far from the worst thing anyone can do...

 

[MaddieJ]

I will however address this "Bettas are ours to take care of."

In my world, an animal is a living thing. If it wants to stand up, walk out of my house and walk away never to return because it was unhappy, I would let it.

Why does everything in this world have to belong to us? This feeling we as humans have to control everything around ourselves has caused the very problems we face in the world today. In my eyes, nothing in this world is ours to own, we simply have the pleasure of caring for it for however long it allows. I believe everything in this world deserves to be what it is, I will not dictate how something should behave, simply because it would please myself, you, the lady down the road...

 

[Dibari]

I don't think the loss of any betta is okay if it means the tank setup 'works out'. To me that's not 'working out'. You didn't address any of my other points as well.

How about the culling of large numbers of fish by breeders just so you can have the fancier colours? Is that sort of loss ok? Considering how inhumane many large scale breeding operations are when it comes to culling, the keeping of some adult males together in a suitably sized tank with appropriate monitoring seems far from the worst thing anyone can do...

I never said I liked that either.. what led you to believe that I condone the process of culling?

 

[Dibari]

I will however address this "Bettas are ours to take care of."

In my world, an animal is a living thing. If it wants to stand up, walk out of my house and walk away never to return because it was unhappy, I would let it.

Why does everything in this world have to belong to us? This feeling we as humans have to control everything around ourselves has caused the very problems we face in the world today. In my eyes, nothing in this world is ours to own, we simply have the pleasure of caring for it for however long it allows. I believe everything in this world deserves to be what it is, I will not dictate how something should behave, simply because it would please myself, you, the lady down the road...

Mmkay. So it would be okay for your domesticated dog to go back to nature, because we don't 'own' them? Even though it wouldn't survive in nature, oh.. Being.. Domesticated and all? You have a responsibility to take care of the animals you bought. They didnt' waltz into your house out of nature and go 'Take care of me, but you don't own me, now.' No.. You made the conscious decision to buy and feed, and house this animal. It is domesticated, bred for human use and care. And I'm doing nothing to control how an animal should behave. I'm keeping it from harm by having it in a tank by itself, where it can be healthy and not torn from fin damage, or even dead, simply because, even though, as you believe 'The animal is not mine, but I shall put it into a situation that it wouldn't be in, in nature, because I feel like it for x reason.' And no, a domesticated betta in a tank is not comparable to a wild betta in a rice paddie in Thailand.

 

[jollysue]

This discussion is headed for a shut down. The logic is lost, and it is not a reasoned discourse. It is running the gambit from existential to pragmatic. Give a reasoned opinion. Make sense and follow a line of thought. Otherwise it is just illogical opinionated ramblings. If we offer different view points in a reasoned manner we will all learn. Otherwise it is just children yelling at each other.

IMO

 

[Dibari]

This discussion is headed for a shut down. The logic is lost, and it is not a reasoned discourse. It is running the gambit from existential to pramatic. Give a reasoned opinion. Make sense and follow a line of thought. Otherwise it is just illogical opinionated ramblings. If we offer different view points in a reasoned manner we will all learn. Otherwise it is just children yelling at each other.

IMO

Sorry. You're right. I'm done. I've made my point.

 

[MaddieJ]

Where I live there is alot of cats who get dumped in the fields behind, when they pop over to my house, they will be fed, can sleep on the chair in my conservatory and leave when they like. They live happily in the fields, killing rabbits, rats and other such for food. These are/were domesticated animals until they were left to defend themselves in the wild. Shall I take in the 30 or so cats because they may be harmed? Animals adapt, yeah ok I do not live in the middle of a large town, lucky me I guess, but still, does it make me cruel to walk by them without taking them all in I wonder.

 

[jollysue]