Breeders, looking for conformation/discussion

[cation]

I'll tell you this, ral - if no responsible pet owner bought a betta in poor conditions, not even to "save" them, and told the store why they were taking their business elsewhere, the problem, at least here in US, would come close to completely going away.

Money talks.

Seems like it would. I've had my finger in the manager of Wal-Marts face as I walked away from a basket full of groceries screaming all the way out about how awful they are and I'd take my business elsewhere,but that I'd be back to check on the fish.
It was just a band-aid.They straightened up for a week or so. I blame the entire thing on management...always. I know how long it takes to do water changes,it's just taking the time to do them. If a good manager insists that they're done,there's no problem. Any employee can squeeze that in every day,it's just laziness and lack of management that prevents them from doing so.

It's the American way Apparently the way in the Philippines as well...

Unfortunately, one person can't do it all.

But I'll tell you, wuv, if everyone in a community stopped shopping at Wal*Mart - eventually they would go out of business. If enough people complain or simply never buy fish from them again - they will reconsider whether they want to carry the stuff at all.

I'm not saying I believe it will happen, just that it's possible.

Used to do a lot of "rescues". Would buy betta's from shops the treated like dirth, kept them for a bit. Got them a new tank, some declorinzer a packet of food and would ship them off to a interested friend. I think the number of rescued fish I have transfered exceeds the number I own.

Than I would path myself on the back for a succesfull rescue, rehab and transfer. Got one betta out of a cup, and the LFS owner probably replaced it with two

Exactly, Ral. It's hard not to help the little guys, but you hurt the majority by helping the minority, you know?

 

[wuvmybetta]

I'll tell you this, ral - if no responsible pet owner bought a betta in poor conditions, not even to "save" them, and told the store why they were taking their business elsewhere, the problem, at least here in US, would come close to completely going away.

Money talks.

Seems like it would. I've had my finger in the manager of Wal-Marts face as I walked away from a basket full of groceries screaming all the way out about how awful they are and I'd take my business elsewhere,but that I'd be back to check on the fish.
It was just a band-aid.They straightened up for a week or so. I blame the entire thing on management...always. I know how long it takes to do water changes,it's just taking the time to do them. If a good manager insists that they're done,there's no problem. Any employee can squeeze that in every day,it's just laziness and lack of management that prevents them from doing so.

It's the American way Apparently the way in the Philippines as well...

Unfortunately, one person can't do it all.

But I'll tell you, wuv, if everyone in a community stopped shopping at Wal*Mart - eventually they would go out of business. If enough people complain or simply never buy fish from them again - they will reconsider whether they want to carry the stuff at all.

I'm not saying I believe it will happen, just that it's possible.

This is true. I hate them so much on so many levels

Ahh, I love to hijack and get off topic in your threads,Jen

 

[cation]

This is true. I hate them so much on so many levels

Ahh, I love to hijack and get off topic in your threads,Jen

Me too, and me too.

 

[ral]

It's the American way Apparently the way in the Phillipines as well...

Probably worse. When you guy say betta-in-a-cup do you literally mean cups? Here, a betta-in-a-cup is kept in a small disposable plastic cup. Think about that smallest disposable cup you have EVER seen and that is the one. Its even smaller than the smallest Starbuck's paper cofee cup. AND ITS ONLY 1/3 TO 1/2 FILLED.

And have you ever seen water turned yellow from fish crap. They are usually line up on top of other aquariums with larger fish below. Sometimes the cup tips over and a betta falls in with gildfish, small carp or a bunch of cichlids. THEY WONT EVEN PULL HIM OUT AND PUT HIM BACK IN HIS CUP WHEN YOU TELL THEM, EXCUSE ME BUT YOU HAVE A BETTA IN YOUR CARP TANK.

Probably the worst I have seen is a betta being continously bumped and bounced around by small carp.

Sometimes they have to transfer the betta to a plastic bag just so I can see how it looks like in full flare.

I dont think it is the American way or the Philippine way. I think it is what happens when the fish retails for $0.50.

 

[ral]

Sorry about the OT. I like this thread because it does try to promote responsible breeding. I hope we have more like it.

Betta genetics is not voodoo.

 

[cation]

I dont think it is the American way or the Philippine way. I think it is what happens when the fish retails for $0.50.

But a betta retailing at $0.50 isn't the american way either, my dear We like to spend, spend, spend, consume, consume consume. And they charge us more and more for the right to keep the system alive.

Yeah, your cups are worse, it sounds like. Most of the betta cups I'm talking about are a minimum of 6 oz (3/4 cup) all the way up to 16oz plastic soda glasses sometimes used (2 cups).

 

[wuvmybetta]

It's the American way    Apparently the way in the Phillipines as well...

Probably worse. When you guy say betta-in-a-cup do you literally mean cups? Here, a betta-in-a-cup is kept in a small disposable plastic cup. Think about that smallest disposable cup you have EVER seen and that is the one. Its even smaller than the smallest Starbuck's paper cofee cup. AND ITS ONLY 1/3 TO 1/2 FILLED.

And have you ever seen water turned yellow from fish crap. They are usually line up on top of other aquariums with larger fish below. Sometimes the cup tips over and a betta falls in with gildfish, small carp or a bunch of cichlids. THEY WONT EVEN PULL HIM OUT AND PUT HIM BACK IN HIS CUP WHEN YOU TELL THEM, EXCUSE ME BUT YOU HAVE A BETTA IN YOUR CARP TANK.

Probably the worst I have seen is a betta being continously bumped and bounced around by small carp.

Sometimes they have to transfer the betta to a plastic bag just so I can see how it looks like in full flare.

I dont think it is the American way or the Philippine way. I think it is what happens when the fish retails for $0.50.

Have you ever seen a urine speciman cup? Itty bitty,tiny? That's what size they are here. I'll search really quick, I know someone posted pics of them before.

N/M,I can't find it. But cation is right on,it's about 6 oz.

 

[ral]

Have you ever seen a urine speciman cup? Itty bitty,tiny? That's what size they are here. I'll search really quick, I know someone posted pics of them before.

 

[Bettaman]

Keep at them wuv i have two of my lfs keeping bettas in tanks one has had a barracks built, too house his bettas as he wants fish from me and i have give him plans for a wall barracks, but he had a standing one made filter system is not drip he has filters in some of the compartments and there is a flow around the whole system better than nothing, cation the pictures look good of the fish i have seen long tailed deltas on aqua bid selling at $20.00, look similar to yours. and all the crap bettas that sell in lfs in the UK are imported from Thailand anyway so its all the experimental breeding out there thats were it starts, as i took a box in with some of my fish and the guy commented in the fact thats the airline my fish come in on, he even put up a sign saying local breed bettas, so people know that they are not inports.........mine go quicker and he would want more every week if i could supply but its easier for him to get the $0.50 fish and sell at $9.00 and make a profit each week i agree with wuv if they could get quality fish at low price they would have them I'm sure lfs are coming around here that quality is better, and keep them in better conditions and sell more ...........although there was a thread a while ago on bad keeping in the uk........

 

[wuvmybetta]

I'll stay on top of it,Bettaman

On another note, I was just browsing betterbettas and there's an interesting subject revolving red grizzle's which as many of you know, I have tons of. Supposedly Phil Lafferty has some who need to show but there's no class for them and as of right now RED on a grizzle (iridescent fish) is considered a major fault,but what happens when you have red grizzles? Kill the fish because they don't fit a standard?
No,instead the IBC is considering a new class for reds and they're revising the standards. For now they need to show with multicolors to avoid a DQ because of a faulty red color.

This was the point I was trying to make earlier. You and your fish can change standards. Right now Phil is paving the way for my fish next year and others who are trying to work marbles in new colors and patterns,but haven't got them perfected.

 

[Texaswoman]

The main argument of the plakat cross to hm cross is that a hm plakat is a good cross, but the traditional plakat doesn't have the same branching/rays for standards as you seek in the hm and plakat hm lines now. The traditional plakat is what they are saying is a shortfin veiltail. If crossed into your hm, and I'm guessing your hm plakat line, veiltails would come out or atleast saying the branching and spread of the caudal fin would not increase or get better.

I breed my traditional plakat male to a st hm finnage female with 8 branches, so we will see soon enough my outcomes. My view on culls, which others may not agree with but, only necessary culls occur with deformaties going first, and so far I haven't culled beyond that. These fish are only existing because I choose to condition them and spawn them and give the fry an enviornment to survive and grow in. Reality being we created even the first longfin bettas and I feel that most of the bettas we breed and raise now woudn't surive in the wild, or very well atleast. Me making the choice to take the bettas life should be no different than me deciding to create it. I don't support mass culling or any disposal of unwanted bettas, but if nature didn't intend them to be deformed and they wouldn't have made it in the wild anyway becoming food for another sibling, then I can't feel bad for culling a deformed betta, or a betta I would feel would suffer by living its life out.

 

[cation]

Texaswoman, the pics to the spawn I linked earlier - that spawn was fathered by a traditional plakat. (by that I mean non-show, wild-type, round-tail plakat) I'll be interested to see how yours turn out, too.

All I have to say is I'm happy with it. I got good branching in the F1, and it looks like the F2 might be even better. as for spread - not that great for the F1. Still waiting on the F2, but looks better. Of course, I believe spread is mediated by water quality, nutrition, exercise, and genetics, so I'm not so willing to chalk up spread to genetics as I am branching. I agree with what I believe wuv was saying about this - tail types are delta, veil, and plakat - all the HM, superdelta stuff is just frosting, and perhaps mediated less genetically then some would like to think.


Bettaman - They sure don't look like veils, do they?

 

[Bettaman]

Bettaman - They sure don't look like veils, do they?

Have you a better picture of that one and only male looks like has some crown in him maybe just the photo........ nice females

 

[cation]

Nope. Whenever the BF brings the digicam from work, I'll take another of him and a few of his kidlings. He's just combed, not a full crown, but he's got even comb extention length on all of his fins.

 

[Bettaman]

so were do you think that come from, if the plakat .......as the females was hm right....