Bedside Manner

[ShaneL]

This thread is why I've joined this forum today over any others. I've looked in on a lot of these forums over the years and there is lot of overly aggressive 'help' to be seen, this forum seemed my best bet to get a rational response on

 

[dh058977]

This thread is why I've joined this forum today over any others. I've looked in on a lot of these forums over the years and there is lot of overly aggressive 'help' to be seen, this forum seemed my best bet to get a rational response on

Shutup! lol no seriously, welcome to the forum and sorry to hear about your betta, hopefully someone will be along soon to help! No experience with them myself but I might pop into your thread to berate you and make you regret your forum choice!

 

[ZoddyZod]

This thread is why I've joined this forum today over any others. I've looked in on a lot of these forums over the years and there is lot of overly aggressive 'help' to be seen, this forum seemed my best bet to get a rational response on

hurrah!

 

[Dieses Madchen]

That is part of the reason why I STAYED on the forum. I asked a lot of really dumb noob question when I first joined. Nobody had a problem telling what I was doing wrong, BUT they also took the time to explain why. There are a bunch of very thorough individuals on the forum, but not in a bad way. I think that some may need to adjust to sensitivity on their feelers. Nobody likes being told they are wrong, or being told that their stocking is bad, or anything else. But also bear in mind that the vast majority of the individuals genuinely do care, and are only telling this information for the betterment of the fish, and trying to help make sure there are no future problems.

I'm not going to lie, I love this forum, and I can't think of any time that I thought of leaving, even when I got my feelings hurt. But, I did take the advice given, and my fish are thriving because someone dared to tell me that I was in the wrong.

 

[dh058977]

That is part of the reason why I STAYED on the forum. I asked a lot of really dumb noob question when I first joined. Nobody had a problem telling what I was doing wrong, BUT they also took the time to explain why. There are a bunch of very thorough individuals on the forum, but not in a bad way. I think that some may need to adjust to sensitivity on their feelers. Nobody likes being told they are wrong, or being told that their stocking is bad, or anything else. But also bear in mind that the vast majority of the individuals genuinely do care, and are only telling this information for the betterment of the fish, and trying to help make sure there are no future problems.

I'm not going to lie, I love this forum, and I can't think of any time that I thought of leaving, even when I got my feelings hurt. But, I did take the advice given, and my fish are thriving because someone dared to tell me that I was in the wrong.

Only when you first joined DM? you sure?! lol

 

[afremont]

But as you were saying about your entry to fishkeeping, its amazing how children seem to be the gateway, as it was because of my children that I got started as well.

Yeah, she is the one that made us actually get into it. Mind you I never start a hobby without doing tons of investigation and research before spending one dollar. So I never would have started the way that we did. I didn't know at the time, but I'm really unhappy about w-mart selling my wife a one gallon tank and two fish to put in it. I started doing a little looking around when they brought them home, but it wasn't until they started getting ill did I finally realize what a predicament we were in.

I have easily spent several hundreds of hours digging around the internet trying to learn how to fix broken fish and care for those that aren't. One of the original glo-fish died, but I thought it was because the other glo-fish was chasing it around too much and it just got wedged in tight pocket formed in the gravel next to a fake plant and the tank side. Now I know the fish checked out because it was dying. To make matters worse, I replaced the dead glo-fish with a cherry barb also before I'd figured out the whole cycle thing. The first glo-fish got ill, but the cherry barb got real bad. We're talking seriously panting and sitting on the tank floor. Literally at this time the information that I had read so far came together and I knew what was wrong. I immediately started doing massive water changes and I bought a 20 gallon tank kit and stand to put them in. I used melafix and water changes to bring them back. I also instant cycled that tank with tetra safe start. Still got the glo-fish and the CB, but they will never be the fish they should have been. They are very lively and my male CB is just crimson in color since we added some females for him. But sadly, both he and the glo-fish are stunted from the suffering early on. On a happy note, the glo-fish recently underwent a growth spurt.

I will never again do that to fish, but I will also never harp on a newbie in that predicament. Sometimes people just end up in the situation of being fish killers when learning to be fish keepers thru no fault of their own. I find fish biology and disease interesting for some reason. I study every day on being a better fish fixer, and have been doing so for about six months. So now I like to regurgitate some of things that I've learned in hopes that it helps someone else. I have a child that expects me to fix the fish when they are sick just like any other broken thing. I guess this is because I fix things for a living as well, it's just in my nature and she thinks I can fix anything using only a screwdriver. It's nice to be held up high like that sometimes, but it sure ain't fun when your fish are dying and your child has tears in her eyes.

 

[Dieses Madchen]

That is part of the reason why I STAYED on the forum. I asked a lot of really dumb noob question when I first joined. Nobody had a problem telling what I was doing wrong, BUT they also took the time to explain why. There are a bunch of very thorough individuals on the forum, but not in a bad way. I think that some may need to adjust to sensitivity on their feelers. Nobody likes being told they are wrong, or being told that their stocking is bad, or anything else. But also bear in mind that the vast majority of the individuals genuinely do care, and are only telling this information for the betterment of the fish, and trying to help make sure there are no future problems.

I'm not going to lie, I love this forum, and I can't think of any time that I thought of leaving, even when I got my feelings hurt. But, I did take the advice given, and my fish are thriving because someone dared to tell me that I was in the wrong.

Only when you first joined DM? you sure?! lol

Hey now, watch that tone you type in

But as you were saying about your entry to fishkeeping, its amazing how children seem to be the gateway, as it was because of my children that I got started as well.

I will never again do that to fish, but I will also never harp on a newbie in that predicament.

So you would allow someone else to make the same mistake, rather than speak of your own experience and try to prevent someone else from doing the same?

 

[afremont]

So you would allow someone else to make the same mistake, rather than speak of your own experience and try to prevent someone else from doing the same?

I just said I wouldn't harp, not further enable someone's ignorance. I'm sure I'll probably never have to say anything on a public forum, but in a one on one situation, then yeah I'd certainly talk about their stocking if I thought it was a contributing cause of their problems. I can't see the situation that I would tell someone to take a sick fish back to the store though. Well maybe if they just bought it and it was still in the bag or something. There might be stores that would actually take them and properly treat them, but I don't know of any around here. I mean if it was a 10" discus or something valuable they might, but for most freshwater tropicals it's just too much risk for no return.

I tried to politely educate and discourage someone at a chain store that was picking out 10 fish for their brand new 10 gallon tank that they just set up. After talking a bit, I knew that they knew nothing about the nitrogen cycle or fish in general for that matter. Finally, I even told them that the fish would probably all die and that they should just get a couple and cycle the tank. It didn't work, they bought the 10 fish. Poor fish, but I felt most sorry for the excited little girl that was about to watch her beloved fish perish one by one.

 

[Dieses Madchen]

I have never seen anyone tell an individual to take a sick fish back to the the shop. I have however, seen stocking questions after a treatment plan had been stated. I saw this in a discus thread. Multiple discus in a 30g tank, so sad. The individual was trying to get info on how to treat ick in discus, and he was given the treatment plan, but also ADVISED that the ick outbreak probably had something to do with the tank size and cramped conditions. He got some bonus information as well as a course of treatment. He chose to get attitude and get upset because members were telling him what he didn't want to hear. If you do not want your situation discussed publicly, then maybe a public forum isn't where you should be.

 

[FishBlast]

So you would allow someone else to make the same mistake, rather than speak of your own experience and try to prevent someone else from doing the same?

I just said I wouldn't harp, not further enable someone's ignorance. I'm sure I'll probably never have to say anything on a public forum, but in a one on one situation, then yeah I'd certainly talk about their stocking if I thought it was a contributing cause of their problems. I can't see the situation that I would tell someone to take a sick fish back to the store though. Well maybe if they just bought it and it was still in the bag or something. There might be stores that would actually take them and properly treat them, but I don't know of any around here. I mean if it was a 10" discus or something valuable they might, but for most freshwater tropicals it's just too much risk for no return.

I tried to politely educate and discourage someone at a chain store that was picking out 10 fish for their brand new 10 gallon tank that they just set up. After talking a bit, I knew that they knew nothing about the nitrogen cycle or fish in general for that matter. Finally, I even told them that the fish would probably all die and that they should just get a couple and cycle the tank. It didn't work, they bought the 10 fish. Poor fish, but I felt most sorry for the excited little girl that was about to watch her beloved fish perish one by one.

I have never experienced fish dying that fast, yet I see a lot of people going through that. I am trying to figure out what the factors are in each case. I have never noticed diseases such as ich / finrot / velvet but there's a first time for everything.

Most of my fish lived for at least a year before dying because of stupid reasons usually. Such as jumping out of the tank, being left in my dad's care (probably can include ammonia poisoning here), too fast water temperature fluctuation (water was too hot for the bettas and then I stupidly added some cold water thinking it would fix... pfff failed).
And then that one time I had this fossilis fish which kept stinging me when I was changing water, and it hurt like hell... fed that one to the cat. Well... it would have grown waaay too big for my tank anyway though now that I remember those days, I feel sorry for it. But I never wanted that fish, dad bought it because he thought it was interesting.
Also the bettas murdering my zebra danios and a few guppies. Under murdering incidents would also be this red swordtail I had long ago. Bought it as a female for my last swordtail male I had, but it proved to be a late developing male and it was pretty big... Though I've had females which gave birth before turning into males too. That swordtail killed the other male and I had no idea they could do that. It was the first time I had observed aggressiveness in those fish.
Then some odd incident when I dropped a frozen bloodworm cube and some neons and another kind of fish just simply flipped on the side after pecking at it... and stopped moving. The next day, again I was feeding a frozen cube... same effect on more neons. Dead, just like that.

There were few deaths that I'd attribute to problems with ammonia while under my care: a few neons during summer, the angelfish and all black widow tetras and probably 2 goldfish but not entirely sure on that one, as they seemed to have swim bladder disease, couldn't float right for few days and I didn't know about peas then. All those fish lived for at least a year though. Just that summer seemed to make things worse.

And two black swordtail females. I almost never had any luck keeping those alive for more than a month. Even the one I got last month died during the first week, but it was mostly due to the bullying the red female did to her and probably the stress of separating her.

 

[afremont]

I have never seen anyone tell an individual to take a sick fish back to the the shop. I have however, seen stocking questions after a treatment plan had been stated. I saw this in a discus thread. Multiple discus in a 30g tank, so sad. The individual was trying to get info on how to treat ick in discus, and he was given the treatment plan, but also ADVISED that the ick outbreak probably had something to do with the tank size and cramped conditions. He got some bonus information as well as a course of treatment. He chose to get attitude and get upset because members were telling him what he didn't want to hear. If you do not want your situation discussed publicly, then maybe a public forum isn't where you should be.

What prompted me to start the whole thread was a situation where something like five people in a row "mentioned" only the stocking and completely ignored the medical question. That may not be the norm, but it certainly upset the poster. Right now I have five DGs in a 20 gallon tank, I hate it. I wouldn't want to put five male DGs in a 200 gallon tank. They get along surprising well, they seem to be thriving actually. What would happen if I posted a question about the health of only one of them to a typical public forum?

Before anyone gets upset, they are rescue fish and I have no choice but to keep them like this for now. They will be rehomed after they sit in quarantine for a while longer. They were seriously sick fish and I'm not convinced that they are completely well so I'm not putting anyone elses tank at risk with them. I'm kinda getting attached to them now that I've fretted over them like children. They're cute, they squirt water at me when I have food. One will jump out and grab at food pinched in my fingers. Now does that really sound like stressed fish?

 

[FishBlast]

I have never seen anyone tell an individual to take a sick fish back to the the shop. I have however, seen stocking questions after a treatment plan had been stated. I saw this in a discus thread. Multiple discus in a 30g tank, so sad. The individual was trying to get info on how to treat ick in discus, and he was given the treatment plan, but also ADVISED that the ick outbreak probably had something to do with the tank size and cramped conditions. He got some bonus information as well as a course of treatment. He chose to get attitude and get upset because members were telling him what he didn't want to hear. If you do not want your situation discussed publicly, then maybe a public forum isn't where you should be.

What prompted me to start the whole thread was a situation where something like five people in a row "mentioned" only the stocking and completely ignored the medical question. That may not be the norm, but it certainly upset the poster. Right now I have five DGs in a 20 gallon tank, I hate it. I wouldn't want to put five male DGs in a 200 gallon tank. They get along surprising well, they seem to be thriving actually. What would happen if I posted a question about the health of only one of them to a typical public forum?

Before anyone gets upset, they are rescue fish and I have no choice but to keep them like this for now. They will be rehomed after they sit in quarantine for a while longer. They were seriously sick fish and I'm not convinced that they are completely well so I'm not putting anyone elses tank at risk with them. I'm kinda getting attached to them now that I've fretted over them like children. They're cute, they squirt water at me when I have food. One will jump out and grab at food pinched in my fingers. Now does that really sound like stressed fish?

Lol mine swim in like sharks as soon as anything enters the tank. The catfish being first. He eats no matter where the food is. Can be between my fingers or in tweezers, he still vacuums it in. Doesn't even give me a chance to put it on the bottom where he can eat it easier. I have to feed each fish separately just so the catfish doesn't eat it all. Lol.

 

[Dieses Madchen]

I dont know how you keep your fish, nor have you asked me so its not my place to say. Just as it wsn't your to comment on my bettas. BUT the threads that I have replied to that had an illness in the tank more than likely resulted in poor stocking and an inadequate tank. I will comment on the stocking in that case because that is a major part of the problem. I will also comment on stocking if there is a legitimate stocking problem resulting in chewed up fish and such. Most members on here do the same. Like I said, its a public forum open to public opinion. If someone posts a question or cry for help on a public forum, they may not get what they want to hear, but when 5 people are saying the same thing, its a safe bet that its probably right. I'm here to help people, as are many others, but don't ask the questions if you cannot handle the answers.

 

[fluttermoth]

What prompted me to start the whole thread was a situation where something like five people in a row "mentioned" only the stocking and completely ignored the medical question.

I think I know what thread you're referring to, and I was one of, if not the first, to comment.

I honestly thought, in that particular case, that nothing much could be done for the fish until it's living conditions were hugely improved.

Maybe I could have approached the whole subject a bit better, and will bear that in mind in the future.

 

[colleen0309]

I dont know how you keep your fish, nor have you asked me so its not my place to say. Just as it wsn't your to comment on my bettas. BUT the threads that I have replied to that had an illness in the tank more than likely resulted in poor stocking and an inadequate tank. I will comment on the stocking in that case because that is a major part of the problem. I will also comment on stocking if there is a legitimate stocking problem resulting in chewed up fish and such. Most members on here do the same. Like I said, its a public forum open to public opinion. If someone posts a question or cry for help on a public forum, they may not get what they want to hear, but when 5 people are saying the same thing, its a safe bet that its probably right. I'm here to help people, as are many others, but don't ask the questions if you cannot handle the answers.

++1 I couldn't have said it better myself. Most people who complain about the responces they get don't like the answers, but know we are right. They just keep asking until they find someone to agree with them.