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[afremont]

[quote name=%26%2339%3BJenste%26%2339%3B timestamp='1329761974' post='3262117']<br />

<br /><br />Personally, I don't like how you keep your betta fish, I think you should move or rehome them rather than constantly stressing them like you are.  Four male bettas wedged into a 10g tank is horrendous.  Now that wasn't very nice of me, was it?<br /><br />

<br /><br />This is uncalled for and is actually harming to your argument as now you sound petty and vindictive.  The argument was going well with both sides bringing their points to the table with out resorting to what boils down to childish behavior on the same level as harassment<br /><br /><br />edit:   in response to your edit.  DM even stated in his post that the bettas cannot see each other.  Again, your argument here invalidates everything else you were originally trying to get through to the forum because the pettiness stands out like flashing lights to us<br />

+1000000
[/quote]

I was just being facetious, I apologize for not being more clear about that. Again I apologize if I offended anyone including Dieses.

 

[Dieses Madchen]

No offense taken I know my fish are happy and healthy so really, anything you said was pretty much debunked by my good water quality and active fish

 

[ainsy]

That's a valid point. Stress is the leading cause of illness with a fish and over/incorrectly stocked tanks make it near impossible to keep the fish healthy. I'm not sure whose stocking list you are talking about, it doesn't sound like the tank that made me start this thread. Looking at your stocking, I see that you prefer to keep your betta fish under constant stress by keeping them where they can see each other. I can also see you are a little short on some species that like more friends.

Personally, I don't like how you keep your betta fish, I think you should move or rehome them rather than constantly stressing them like you are. Four male bettas wedged into a 10g tank is horrendous. Now that wasn't very nice of me, was it?

You have just done exactly the thing that you started this thread complaining about!

 

[afremont]

In response to your edit, Afremont, both tanks are filtered and heater. My bettas are extremely healthy, as are all the fish in the EIGHT tanks I keep

Sorry I didn't notice that they were in two separate tanks. I'm glad that they are warm and can't see each other, and so are they. My daughter's betta has a 10g all to itself and it patrols the entire thing. I see it playing in the filter waterfall and everything. I feel so sorry for how so many of them are kept.

I "only" have six full time tanks and a currently empty hospital that I've fortunately only used for rescue fish. So far it's been good on this end too health wise even though I might do some unconventional things by "accepted" standards. Again I apologize, I wasn't trying to hurt you personally, and I should have been more clear that it was sarcasm.

 

[Dieses Madchen]

Like I said, I'm not offended. I haven't had problems with my stock, and I rehome fish that need more than I can give. I firmly believe that a lot of disease is caused by stress, and I have rehomed fish that cause stress as well as those that are unhappy. I understand what you are trying to say, and parts of it I agree with, but when it comes to people having issue with their tanks, sadly, a lot can be corrected due to change in stock. I had a Jewel Cichlid once. Had her for about 5 months. I loved her more than anything. She was my favorate fish. But, she was aggressive, and was pretty much satan re-incarnated. I gave her up as she was causing stress as well as stressing herself out, and she killed some of my fish. I hate telling people to rehome their fish, but in the end, its only being said for the better. Heck, the same can be applied to pets. I had a husky that I loved to pieces, but I gave him away because he was unhappy. Broke my heart, but I did it for him, and he is the happiest dog in the world now.

 

[afremont]

Like I said, I'm not offended. I haven't had problems with my stock, and I rehome fish that need more than I can give. I firmly believe that a lot of disease is caused by stress, and I have rehomed fish that cause stress as well as those that are unhappy. I understand what you are trying to say, and parts of it I agree with, but when it comes to people having issue with their tanks, sadly, a lot can be corrected due to change in stock. I had a Jewel Cichlid once. Had her for about 5 months. I loved her more than anything. She was my favorate fish. But, she was aggressive, and was pretty much satan re-incarnated. I gave her up as she was causing stress as well as stressing herself out, and she killed some of my fish. I hate telling people to rehome their fish, but in the end, its only being said for the better. Heck, the same can be applied to pets. I had a husky that I loved to pieces, but I gave him away because he was unhappy. Broke my heart, but I did it for him, and he is the happiest dog in the world now.

I agree with all that. I never meant that stocking and cycling weren't important or shouldn't be brought up, but it's the way that it gets brought up that concerns me. After five people in a row only criticize the tank without addressing the sick fish, it becomes a mean spirited attack whether that is the intent or not. I know nobody really wants that, but to a distraught newbie with a dying fish on their hands, it's the last thing they or the sick fish need.

 

[Dieses Madchen]

this is true. When I address I stocking issue, i try my best to explain why its an issue, but I will still advise on treatment of the sicck fish, as well as encourage a stock revamp

 

[ZoddyZod]

it's the way that it gets brought up that concerns me. After five people in a row only criticize the tank without addressing the sick fish, it becomes a mean spirited attack whether that is the intent or not. I know nobody really wants that, but to a distraught newbie with a dying fish on their hands, it's the last thing they or the sick fish need.

and this is behaviour that is generally frowned upon here at TFF. If anyone sees this sort of response (which usually ends in rants/flaming) then we encourage people to hit the report button to bring it to the attention of the Moderating team.

Encouraging new fish keepers is something that I think this forum does particularly well and I certainly don't think that flaming is the typical response a newcomer can expect when they come here for help or info.

 

[Rummynose]

That was an interesting read.

What I find often frustrating is when someone asking for help or opinions is squashing all suggestions and explains all the mistakes that are being pointed out as non valid in their case for whatever reason.

There are very knowledgeable people on here, who have been in this hobby longer than some of us have been alive, and still some people don't show respect to those valuable members on here that are only trying to help these fish!

I do agree with your message, that some people coming on here for answers are not coming back to read all comments after reading x numbers of negative statements, but it is also true that sometimes the written word is open to the readers interpretation, you can't hear a softness in the voice, since there is no voice, you can't see a compassionate expression since there is no face!

 

[afremont]

it's the way that it gets brought up that concerns me. After five people in a row only criticize the tank without addressing the sick fish, it becomes a mean spirited attack whether that is the intent or not. I know nobody really wants that, but to a distraught newbie with a dying fish on their hands, it's the last thing they or the sick fish need.

and this is behaviour that is generally frowned upon here at TFF. If anyone sees this sort of response (which usually ends in rants/flaming) then we encourage people to hit the report button to bring it to the attention of the Moderating team.

Encouraging new fish keepers is something that I think this forum does particularly well and I certainly don't think that flaming is the typical response a newcomer can expect when they come here for help or info.

Again maybe I should clarify. When I say "it becomes a mean spirited attack" I guess what I should say is that "it could easily be misinterpreted as a mean spirited attack by the person seeking help". I'm not saying that anyone has been intentionally mean. Sorry if I started this thread in the wrong place, you can move it if this is the wrong place for this discussion.

 

[Mowbz]

Theres a rant thread in general. Integrate.

 

[ZoddyZod]

Theres a rant thread in general. Integrate.

I dont class this topic as a rant at all, just an observation of how certain types of reponses can be perceived.

 

[afremont]

That was an interesting read.

What I find often frustrating is when someone asking for help or opinions is squashing all suggestions and explains all the mistakes that are being pointed out as non valid in their case for whatever reason.

I know what you mean by that and it does happen. I guess that's just a human nature issue and to quote an odd movie, "some people you just can reach". But in the same vane we can all do something to overcome the "failure to communicate". I hope somebody gets that and that I'm not just too old.


There are very knowledgeable people on here, who have been in this hobby longer than some of us have been alive, and still some people don't show respect to those valuable members on here that are only trying to help these fish!

Yes, but it's also hard to know who those people really are. You sure can't go by the number of posts in all cases. Another problem is that for most "expert" opinions, you can find another that completely disagrees. That seems to be extremely prevalent in this hobby. And I'm not talking about hobbyists, I'm referring to people with PhDs and a lifetime of education and experience that publish books. There is simply not that much information about fishkeeping that is solidly and unchangably true across time.

I do agree with your message, that some people coming on here for answers are not coming back to read all comments after reading x numbers of negative statements, but it is also true that sometimes the written word is open to the readers interpretation, you can't hear a softness in the voice, since there is no voice, you can't see a compassionate expression since there is no face!

Yes, and I've made numerous mistakes myself today by not using enough of the proper verbiage to better make my point. I guess I should use more pictures, but I come from usenet.

 

[Mowbz]

Theres a rant thread in general. Integrate.

I dont class this topic as a rant at all, just an observation of how certain types of reponses can be perceived.

Until the last post by the OP, thats not what i was getting. I read the whole thread, and it seems like we're debating something we already know. Some people flame newbies, some people just get offended easily, and where appropriate, the mods seem to have always dealt with it appropriately.

Its a forum, this is just part of using one. Your not talking face to face, its difficult to perceive the context the author is trying to convey.

I dont see what more there is.

 

[FishBlast]

That was an interesting read.

What I find often frustrating is when someone asking for help or opinions is squashing all suggestions and explains all the mistakes that are being pointed out as non valid in their case for whatever reason.

There are very knowledgeable people on here, who have been in this hobby longer than some of us have been alive, and still some people don't show respect to those valuable members on here that are only trying to help these fish!

I do agree with your message, that some people coming on here for answers are not coming back to read all comments after reading x numbers of negative statements, but it is also true that sometimes the written word is open to the readers interpretation, you can't hear a softness in the voice, since there is no voice, you can't see a compassionate expression since there is no face!

We could always use or draw smileys.
Or... we could just be like... this.

Theres a rant thread in general. Integrate.

There is? O.O *prepares a list of rants about pretty much everything that can be ranted about* LOL.


Side note: The Emergency section became the off-topic of this website. It also has some entertaining trolls. (LOL fried mollies...)