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Ask Questions About Cycling
aquarist_in_china
Mostly New Member
Pre-cycling filters/media?
Hi, I want to have a spare filer cycled for emergency use or ready for a new tank if I get one. Am I right in thinking that if I put one of those sponge filters next to the intake for my filter, where the water flow is strong, and hid it behind some plants, I'd effectively have a spare filter ready to go? It also occurred to me that getting a box filter would give me the same option, because I could cut off a piece of my filter media and poke it in. Do people do anything like this? My tank currently has the kind of partitioned sump filter, where the back of the tank is sectioned off and full of media. Thanks!
Hi, I want to have a spare filer cycled for emergency use or ready for a new tank if I get one. Am I right in thinking that if I put one of those sponge filters next to the intake for my filter, where the water flow is strong, and hid it behind some plants, I'd effectively have a spare filter ready to go? It also occurred to me that getting a box filter would give me the same option, because I could cut off a piece of my filter media and poke it in. Do people do anything like this? My tank currently has the kind of partitioned sump filter, where the back of the tank is sectioned off and full of media. Thanks!
Yes; lots of us do similar things, and it's a very good idea. You never know when you might need a cycled filter in an emergency; usually for hospital or quarantine tanks.
Depending on your set up and the kind of sponge, you could actually fit the sponge over the intake of your filter. Just sitting the sponge near the inlet won't get any bacteria growing on it; it needs to be in the filtration system somewhere. If it will fit in the filter section with the other media, that would work too.
If you can't fit the sponge on (or in) your current filter somewhere, then the box filter would be the next best option.
Do bear in mind that you can't get an awful lot of extra bacteria growing like this, so your spare sponge will only support a few small fish, at most. If you use it, do plenty of water changes (unless you can test for ammonia/nitrite?) and be very careful not to overfeed the new tank.
Depending on your set up and the kind of sponge, you could actually fit the sponge over the intake of your filter. Just sitting the sponge near the inlet won't get any bacteria growing on it; it needs to be in the filtration system somewhere. If it will fit in the filter section with the other media, that would work too.
If you can't fit the sponge on (or in) your current filter somewhere, then the box filter would be the next best option.
Do bear in mind that you can't get an awful lot of extra bacteria growing like this, so your spare sponge will only support a few small fish, at most. If you use it, do plenty of water changes (unless you can test for ammonia/nitrite?) and be very careful not to overfeed the new tank.
TwoTankAmin
Fish Connoisseur
The thing it is important to understand is that adding another filter does nothing to increase the total amount of bacteria in a tank. That is determined by the bio-load. More ammonia produced will foster bacterial reproduction to be able to handle that load.
So when you add a filter you just spread out the bacteria. When you remove that filter to use on another tank, you remove bacteria from the established tank. There is no way to know for certain where the bacteria in any tank may be colonizing. So when one moves over a filter or filter media etc., there is no way to be certain how much bacteria is being removed. This can lead to two problems, either alone or in concert.
First, it is possible to remove too much bacteria from the established tank resulting in going through another small cycle to get it back up to capacity. Second, it is possible that one will not move enough bacteria into the new tank to handle the bio-load going into it. Therefore it is imperative to monitor both tanks to insure there are no out of hand cycling related issues. If you move the 2nd filter into the new tank in advance, you can add some ammonia to see where it stands and/or to get it up to a proper level before the new fish go in.
So when you add a filter you just spread out the bacteria. When you remove that filter to use on another tank, you remove bacteria from the established tank. There is no way to know for certain where the bacteria in any tank may be colonizing. So when one moves over a filter or filter media etc., there is no way to be certain how much bacteria is being removed. This can lead to two problems, either alone or in concert.
First, it is possible to remove too much bacteria from the established tank resulting in going through another small cycle to get it back up to capacity. Second, it is possible that one will not move enough bacteria into the new tank to handle the bio-load going into it. Therefore it is imperative to monitor both tanks to insure there are no out of hand cycling related issues. If you move the 2nd filter into the new tank in advance, you can add some ammonia to see where it stands and/or to get it up to a proper level before the new fish go in.
aquarist_in_china
Mostly New Member
Thanks. It sounds like using an existing tank is maybe not wise. Perhaps it makes more sense to just get another tank as soon as you think you might want one, and get it cycling, or start cycling a filter in a bucket with no fish. Risking messing up two tanks is not the smart move I wanted.
TwoTankAmin
Fish Connoisseur
Well, the best solution is to be able to take some of the media from your cycled filter to use to seed a new tank. If you take 20-25% of the bio-media you should not cause big problems, or at least not serious nor long lasting ones. A mini spike may last a day or two tops and not be real big in terms of the testnumbers seen But this amount of seed bacteria will enable you to get a new tank cycled by adding ammonia a whole lot faster that your first tank did. It can be a week or two depending on how many new fish will be going into the Q tank.
However, unless you are packing a Q tank to capacity, you can usually use 2 ppm of ammonia instead of the 3 ppm in the basic instructions here. And you can start almost as if you were at the final part of the cycle. The greatest advantage to seeding a tank at the start is the presence of the nitrite oxidizing bacteria. Not having to wait for them to build up from scratch is a real time saver.
However, unless you are packing a Q tank to capacity, you can usually use 2 ppm of ammonia instead of the 3 ppm in the basic instructions here. And you can start almost as if you were at the final part of the cycle. The greatest advantage to seeding a tank at the start is the presence of the nitrite oxidizing bacteria. Not having to wait for them to build up from scratch is a real time saver.
Sharknado99
Fish Fanatic
Sorry to ask another noob question which has probably been answered a thousand times or more. I've read all i can and am a bit overwhelmed by all the information out there (also not very good at chemistry haha)..anyway, i am just wondering about low nitrate levels..ie a zero reading. I'm worried that maybe theres not enough good bacteria in there. the reading was higher over a week ago but when i lately tested (tested twice just in case there was error), the reading came out bright yellow which according to the chart was zero. Im a bit worried that maybe somehow the good bacteria are dead or dying. Theres already fish in there...anything i can do to increase the bacteria population apart from adding those API stress enzyme potions?
The easiest way to boost bacteria is to add some filter media from an established tank.
TwoTankAmin said:Hi all- let me start with an apology to anybody who has read the piece and to tcamos whom I dove nuts re pictures and tables. In the final section on Suggestions and Trouble Shooting there is a table showing how much water to change. I had a heck of a fight getting it proper and it finally is. This is how it should look:
nice one thanks
Hello, just a double check, thought it better to put it here than start yet another thread.
I'm on day 21 of cycling my tank, think it's nearly there but very new to this so like I say double-checking.
I added the full dose of ammonia to get 3ppm,
next day ammonia was 0.25/0ppm, but nitrite was around 2ppm so I didn't do anything.
next day both were showing 0ppm so I adding the full dose again,
tested today and again ammonia is right down but nitrite is 1-2ppm (thinking of testing it later today to get a better idea of how long it takes to drop)
So if I'm reading the guide correctly I need to carry on this pattern of dosing/testing until both read 0ppm on the first day after dosing?
I'm on day 21 of cycling my tank, think it's nearly there but very new to this so like I say double-checking.
I added the full dose of ammonia to get 3ppm,
next day ammonia was 0.25/0ppm, but nitrite was around 2ppm so I didn't do anything.
next day both were showing 0ppm so I adding the full dose again,
tested today and again ammonia is right down but nitrite is 1-2ppm (thinking of testing it later today to get a better idea of how long it takes to drop)
So if I'm reading the guide correctly I need to carry on this pattern of dosing/testing until both read 0ppm on the first day after dosing?
That's right.
TwoTankAmin
Fish Connoisseur
Pretty much you have it down fine. because the nitrite bacteria start reproducing later and because the reproduce more slowly than the ammonia ones, it takes longer for nitrite to 0 out in a tank. but one way you can get a good feel for what is up is to be aware that 3 ppm of ammonia will convert to a maximum of about 7.65 ppm of nitrite. So, the fact that you are seeing only 1-2 ppm of nitrite means your tank is dealing with the other 5 or so ppm. this means you are pretty close to cycled.
As the cycle is being completed, we are building up more and more bacteria until we eventually have all that is needed. When one adds that first 3 ppm of ammonia there are very few bacteria present. The bacteria must reproduce in order to reduce the ammonia. As a result getting the 1st ppm of the 3 to be processed will take longer than getting the last ppm processed. Its simply because there are more bacteria at work on the final ppm than the first one. The same is true for nitrite.
Since you have 0 ammonia, all you need to see before adding ammonia again is for your nitrite to be clearly under 1 ppm. My best guess is that you may only need one more ammonia addition before your tank is ready for fish. At most you may need 2.
As the cycle is being completed, we are building up more and more bacteria until we eventually have all that is needed. When one adds that first 3 ppm of ammonia there are very few bacteria present. The bacteria must reproduce in order to reduce the ammonia. As a result getting the 1st ppm of the 3 to be processed will take longer than getting the last ppm processed. Its simply because there are more bacteria at work on the final ppm than the first one. The same is true for nitrite.
Since you have 0 ammonia, all you need to see before adding ammonia again is for your nitrite to be clearly under 1 ppm. My best guess is that you may only need one more ammonia addition before your tank is ready for fish. At most you may need 2.
THANKS I worked out I was dealing with 7.65ppm Nitrite and its really nice to have you give the same figure - you've clearly managed to teach me!TwoTankAmin said:
Its exciting to be near the end of the cycle, I'm looking forward to having some fish in there.
barry.ellis
New Member
Hey fellow fish men/woman out there....
I have a problem with my water in that my Nitrate & ammonia levels seem to be increasing to toxic levels. Starting with background info on the tank and its contents: 100 Litre tank, Gravel base accommodated with 1x clown loach, 8x small neons, 5x guppies, 2x platties, 1x glass cat, 2x gouramis and 5x pleks.
Over the Christmas period I took all the gravel out and rinsed thoroughly whilst removing every last bit of floating poops I could physical managed with the nets. I also cleaned all the filter pads like new and did a 40% water change.
I took my water sample to the store to check and to my surprise was informed that the water was deadly to the fish! After some advice I removed the 3 live plants that were in there due to them having holes and black hairs on their leaves and found out that my flat mate had been feeding the fish during the day (I feed them with dry flakes when I get home from work in the evening).
I have done another 40% change, removed the plants, Boll%^ed my flat mate and every other day completed a further 10% change. All the fish seem to be in good spirit but I was wondering if there was any expert advice out there that will help me before I go back to the shop with another water sample and my fingers crossed..........
I have a problem with my water in that my Nitrate & ammonia levels seem to be increasing to toxic levels. Starting with background info on the tank and its contents: 100 Litre tank, Gravel base accommodated with 1x clown loach, 8x small neons, 5x guppies, 2x platties, 1x glass cat, 2x gouramis and 5x pleks.
Over the Christmas period I took all the gravel out and rinsed thoroughly whilst removing every last bit of floating poops I could physical managed with the nets. I also cleaned all the filter pads like new and did a 40% water change.
I took my water sample to the store to check and to my surprise was informed that the water was deadly to the fish! After some advice I removed the 3 live plants that were in there due to them having holes and black hairs on their leaves and found out that my flat mate had been feeding the fish during the day (I feed them with dry flakes when I get home from work in the evening).
I have done another 40% change, removed the plants, Boll%^ed my flat mate and every other day completed a further 10% change. All the fish seem to be in good spirit but I was wondering if there was any expert advice out there that will help me before I go back to the shop with another water sample and my fingers crossed..........
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