FingersofFish
Fish Fanatic
Took your advice and tested water for nitrite, reading on api comes back as 0ppm very pale blue. Not sure what is causing the nitrite to be so high!
Ask Questions About Cycling
That's very odd. ~5ppm nitrite should only show up as a result of a ~ 2ppm ammonia drop. And if the ammonia isn't dropping by ~2ppm, then the nitrite CAN'T be converted from the ammonia, but from something else. What though?
What's the substrate? Some substrates, especially some for planted tanks will leak ammonia into the water column.
What's the substrate? Some substrates, especially some for planted tanks will leak ammonia into the water column.
That was my other thought - perhaps a dead snail or something leeching more ammonia into the tank?
Although considering that this high nitrite value occurred after just 4 days I am more inclined to believe that this is an erroneous reading, somehow
I can't explain it but perhaps it's not such a bad thing - early nitrite in the tank may help reduce overall cycling time?!
Although considering that this high nitrite value occurred after just 4 days I am more inclined to believe that this is an erroneous reading, somehow
I can't explain it but perhaps it's not such a bad thing - early nitrite in the tank may help reduce overall cycling time?!
TwoTankAmin
Fish Connoisseur
And here again we see the dilemma faced by all of us in this hobby. One the one hand we need to be able to see reasonable test results but on the other almost none of us can afford the kind of tests or testing equipment that would fill this need. The problems is that very often we see situations like this one. We know the way the bacterial nitrifying process works in a tank: ammonia-->nitrite-->nitrate. Further we can calculate about what should happen in this respect. And then we are hit with the problem.
We add ammonia, we test and the results from the tests do not jibe with what is expected be based on the chemistry and biology involved. The problem is that most of us then trust the test results anyhow.
As far as I have come to know and understand, nitrite is almost never seen in one's tap. We do not add nitrite directly to tanks and we know plants don't consume it either. The only time we can even see nitrite in a tank is when it is being cycled or when something happens to affect and established cycle. Given these facts and given those reported above, things do not jibe. So the question becomes why not. And I can offer a ton of reasons:
1. While everybody reports they have performed the test correctly, this doesn't make that true. people do make mistakes. they fail to clean the tubes well before testing, the lose count of drops, they take the sample from the surface water etc.
2. The tests use drops, the bottles are cheap, and drop sizes can vary for any number of reasons.
3. Test results can become inaccurate due to certain things in the water. For ammonia iron messes up results as does any clouding of the water (turbidity).
4. Color interpretation using human eyes is subjective to some extent.
5. Dechlors and ammonia detoxifiers can mess with results.
6. Relevant information is almost always left out by the OP because they are not aware it matters.
7. Adding bacteria and/or live plants to a tank will change results from a cycle w/o any of this. But usually it will affect both ammonia and nitrite levels similarly. Most often the biggest effect is on nitrite and it is in the opposite direction as reported here.
7. Etc. etc.
So we have a tank that apparently started at 0/0, had at least 3.5 ppm of ammonia added, days later it has not dropped yet there are apparently nitrites. All I can say here is the numbers are wrong somewhere. Either more ammonia went in than realized, the ammonia test results are not correct and/or the same for the nitrite reading. There is a reason for what we are seeing here and the one thing it can't be is all true.
Cycling is a process and the only way to make sense out of somebody else's cycling issues in many cases is to have full and complete information detailing everything that went into a tank since day one. This is why the easiest solution is often to do a massive water change to reset things and then to test and redose ammonia accordingly.
The other way I tend to look at reports like this one or reports or persistent low levels of ammonia is to ask myself a question. I try to see if I could figure out a reasonable method of reproducing the same result intentionally. If you cannot come up with an answer, the odds are they are not happening naturally either.
"When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth." – Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, stated by Sherlock Holmes.
We add ammonia, we test and the results from the tests do not jibe with what is expected be based on the chemistry and biology involved. The problem is that most of us then trust the test results anyhow.
As far as I have come to know and understand, nitrite is almost never seen in one's tap. We do not add nitrite directly to tanks and we know plants don't consume it either. The only time we can even see nitrite in a tank is when it is being cycled or when something happens to affect and established cycle. Given these facts and given those reported above, things do not jibe. So the question becomes why not. And I can offer a ton of reasons:
1. While everybody reports they have performed the test correctly, this doesn't make that true. people do make mistakes. they fail to clean the tubes well before testing, the lose count of drops, they take the sample from the surface water etc.
2. The tests use drops, the bottles are cheap, and drop sizes can vary for any number of reasons.
3. Test results can become inaccurate due to certain things in the water. For ammonia iron messes up results as does any clouding of the water (turbidity).
4. Color interpretation using human eyes is subjective to some extent.
5. Dechlors and ammonia detoxifiers can mess with results.
6. Relevant information is almost always left out by the OP because they are not aware it matters.
7. Adding bacteria and/or live plants to a tank will change results from a cycle w/o any of this. But usually it will affect both ammonia and nitrite levels similarly. Most often the biggest effect is on nitrite and it is in the opposite direction as reported here.
7. Etc. etc.
So we have a tank that apparently started at 0/0, had at least 3.5 ppm of ammonia added, days later it has not dropped yet there are apparently nitrites. All I can say here is the numbers are wrong somewhere. Either more ammonia went in than realized, the ammonia test results are not correct and/or the same for the nitrite reading. There is a reason for what we are seeing here and the one thing it can't be is all true.
Cycling is a process and the only way to make sense out of somebody else's cycling issues in many cases is to have full and complete information detailing everything that went into a tank since day one. This is why the easiest solution is often to do a massive water change to reset things and then to test and redose ammonia accordingly.
The other way I tend to look at reports like this one or reports or persistent low levels of ammonia is to ask myself a question. I try to see if I could figure out a reasonable method of reproducing the same result intentionally. If you cannot come up with an answer, the odds are they are not happening naturally either.
"When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth." – Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, stated by Sherlock Holmes.
FingersofFish
Fish Fanatic
Substrate is Tropica (about 2cm, with 3cm gravel on top) from what I have read many people use it and do not suffer problems, aquarium gravel was bought from LFS as pre-washed and also washed in a bucket at least 10+ times before adding to the tank. Decor is Fluval Mopani wood which was again washed before putting into the tank. Plants are from a highly regarded LFS nearby which I have heard great reviews about and has been nominated/won awards in practical fishkeeping many times.
From the above I can't see any reason that anything dead etc. would of made it's way into the tank, certainally nothing I can see.
Only thing added to the tank since day 1 was roughly 65L tap water with Prime de-chlor, a single dose of API quick start and 2mL of 9.5% ammonia.
I'm aware that the tests are not always accurate and i'm sure I have probably have made mistakes but I have now done 6+ repeats all showing simmilar readings (with nitrite consistently very dark purple (>5.0ppm) - surely i can;t be that bad at testing!
One thing that stood out to me though was that TwoTankAmin said not to take surface water for testing, I have probably only been delving 2/3cm into the tank to collect sample. I will try again with a sample from further down and see what results it yields.
If I have no joy in next few days will probably do a large water change and start over as you suggest.
From the above I can't see any reason that anything dead etc. would of made it's way into the tank, certainally nothing I can see.
Only thing added to the tank since day 1 was roughly 65L tap water with Prime de-chlor, a single dose of API quick start and 2mL of 9.5% ammonia.
I'm aware that the tests are not always accurate and i'm sure I have probably have made mistakes but I have now done 6+ repeats all showing simmilar readings (with nitrite consistently very dark purple (>5.0ppm) - surely i can;t be that bad at testing!
One thing that stood out to me though was that TwoTankAmin said not to take surface water for testing, I have probably only been delving 2/3cm into the tank to collect sample. I will try again with a sample from further down and see what results it yields.
If I have no joy in next few days will probably do a large water change and start over as you suggest.
Help me please, I've recently set up my 130 litre tank for a fishless cycle, I've highered the temperature for the bacteria to grow to 28 degrees. My source of ammonia is jeyes kleen off multi-purpose ammonia. Now using the ammonia calculator it states for 3ppm I should add 4ml now on my test kit(jbl testlab) it shows on the charts the water should be a green/blue colour it won't change from yellow which in the chart says the ammonia is at <0,05 I've added 20ml so far and no change in the colour of tested water what do I do please.
What test kit are you using?
KieranBoyne
Moved On
That's a good choice of test kit by the way!!
KieranBoyne
Moved On
I did, But I went to the api test kit because I broke the jbl one lol
I don't want to sound patronising, but are you sure you're doing the test correctly? It's very easy to miss a step, we've all done it! The API test, for example, has two reagents and I've known quite a few people not realise you had to use both!
Other than that, I would take a sample to your LFS and get them to test it, that'll tell you whether it's a dodgy kit or not.
Other than that, I would take a sample to your LFS and get them to test it, that'll tell you whether it's a dodgy kit or not.
KieranBoyne
Moved On
Yeah I often used to do it wrong and I'd look at the result and Id be thinking...WHAT??
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