Any nice footage of Lamb chop rasboras?

[rebe]

Would it be worth getting plastic floating plants, using cuttings of hornwort or getting another floating plant? I am thinking either red root floaters, water spangle or azolla. Since the lid with the built-in lighting could be the issue?

 

[AlexT]

Would it be worth getting plastic floating plants, using cuttings of hornwort or getting another floating plant? I am thinking either red root floaters, water spangle or azolla. Since the lid with the built-in lighting could be the issue?

Are we sure the lid and lighting is an issue for floating plants? What can you tell us @Byron when you have a moment. Maybe for some, but I didn't see anything that suggested it was a big problem for things like frogbit. Is your lighting LED or T8 or T5.

The hornwort floating around has good potential. If you buy plastic plants make sure the seller confirms they actually float! I've had that issue before.

 

[rebe]

Are we sure the lid and lighting is an issue for floating plants? What can you tell us @Byron when you have a moment. Maybe for some, but I didn't see anything that suggested it was a big problem for things like frogbit. Is your lighting LED or T8 or T5.

The hornwort floating around has good potential. If you buy plastic plants make sure the seller confirms they actually float! I've had that issue before.

I'm honestly not sure why the frogbit died! It was growing well for the first five or six days, then it died really quickly. Some of the leaves were turning brown, I thought that temperature or water movement could be the cause. So I removed the frogbit into a smaller container of water and they melted/died pretty quickly after that. In the days before, the only changes I noticed were the first appearances of bladder snails and I had added the recommended first dose of Seachem Flourish (not flourish excel or advanced).

The floating plants would drift around the aquarium unless they settled in a corner or against the driftwood.

Condensation does gather on the lid of the tank so maybe water dripping or the surface movement could have killed them.

Maybe light burns from the light being so close? The lights are blue and white LEDs (built-in, the Aquael Leddy 75 aquarium lid). Right now the water level is 3cm-ish away from the light which is a bar running along the centre of the lid. I might have filled the tank less when I had the plants but I don't remember.

There was also 1ppm ammonia in the tank constantly around then (leeched from aquasoil).

 

[AlexT]

Good point about condensation! I just checked mine and I think I am okay on that.

 

[Byron]

My first comment is that I have often read members suggesting that the moisture on the leaves is the problem, but I do not believe it is. Condensation is normal in all tanks. [ @AlexT are you sure during total darkness water is not evaporating and condensing on the tank cover? If the tank water is warm, it will evaporate and condense. During the daylight the tank light will dry the cover under the light, but not at night.] The surface disturbance might, if it is beyond what it should be. I never had this problem. Plants being pushed into a corner suggests too much movement.

Floating plants are fast growing, so they need good light (compared to slower-growing plants), and good nutrition to balance. Floating plants have the aerial advantage, which refers to the uptake of CO2 from the air rather than relying on CO2 in the water, and plants do this about four times faster (by air) so this should not be an issue (lack of carbon). It seems Flourish Comprehensive Supplement was added (good) but only once and the plants died within the first five days.

The light is important from the perspective of spectrum. My tanks had moderate, which some would probably think more of as low, light, but the spectrum was good and the floaters did well. Duration can matter, if it extends beyond the balance with the nutrients. Plants will only photosynthesize if everything they need is available.

I think someone mentioned the tropical species and two temperate species of Frogbit, and they are not distinguishable by the leaves but only if they flower. Mine did, which is how I was able to discern it was the temperate species. I had this floater for many years, but the permanent tropical temperatures I am sure kept it from really thriving, but it was generally doing well nonetheless.

When all is said and done, not all plants will grow in all aquaria. Different types of algae can appear in this aquarium but not the others. Plants are not much different, and there is the issue of allelopathy. A change in conditions involving the light or nutrients or water parameters can upset things.

 

[AlexT]

My first comment is that I have often read members suggesting that the moisture on the leaves is the problem, but I do not believe it is. Condensation is normal in all tanks. [ @AlexT are you sure during total darkness water is not evaporating and condensing on the tank cover? If the tank water is warm, it will evaporate and condense. During the daylight the tank light will dry the cover under the light, but not at night.] The surface disturbance might, if it is beyond what it should be. I never had this problem. Plants being pushed into a corner suggests too much movement.

Floating plants are fast growing, so they need good light (compared to slower-growing plants), and good nutrition to balance. Floating plants have the aerial advantage, which refers to the uptake of CO2 from the air rather than relying on CO2 in the water, and plants do this about four times faster (by air) so this should not be an issue (lack of carbon). It seems Flourish Comprehensive Supplement was added (good) but only once and the plants died within the first five days.

The light is important from the perspective of spectrum. My tanks had moderate, which some would probably think more of as low, light, but the spectrum was good and the floaters did well. Duration can matter, if it extends beyond the balance with the nutrients. Plants will only photosynthesize if everything they need is available.

I think someone mentioned the tropical species and two temperate species of Frogbit, and they are not distinguishable by the leaves but only if they flower. Mine did, which is how I was able to discern it was the temperate species. I had this floater for many years, but the permanent tropical temperatures I am sure kept it from really thriving, but it was generally doing well nonetheless.

When all is said and done, not all plants will grow in all aquaria. Different types of algae can appear in this aquarium but not the others. Plants are not much different, and there is the issue of allelopathy. A change in conditions involving the light or nutrients or water parameters can upset things.

And also Kelvin scale doesn't really get discussed much, have you noticed that? It does by some of the more experienced, but in general, you don't see much on it. I'm not specifically talking about TFF. Did you know about that rebe? I had no clue until I joined this forum in July.

I believe the K we are going for in planted set ups is somewhere close, or just under to 6500K

Currently, I've got one LED of 6500K and one of 4475K which I think is pretty decent as far as Kelvin is concerned. Obviously there is more to lighting than just the K rating.

 

[rebe]

And also Kelvin scale doesn't really get discussed much, have you noticed that? It does by some of the more experienced, but in general, you don't see much on it. I'm not specifically talking about TFF. Did you know about that rebe? I had no clue until I joined this forum in July.

I believe the K we are going for in planted set ups is somewhere close, or just under to 6500K

Currently, I've got one LED of 6500K and one of 4475K which I think is pretty decent as far as Kelvin is concerned. Obviously there is more to lighting than just the K rating.

No, I've not read about that in terms of fish/aquarium keeping until now. This is what I can find online in terms of my lighting:

"With Sunny LED mode which is 6500k for the daylight lighting, then a Sunny/Blue mode for sunrise and sunset and then an ultra cool Moonlight mode for night viewing!"
( link to website )

So if that's what we're going for, then I hope that website is right!

 

[AlexT]

Well you landed in the sweet spot! Luck of the Irish

 

[rebe]

My first comment is that I have often read members suggesting that the moisture on the leaves is the problem, but I do not believe it is. Condensation is normal in all tanks. [ @AlexT are you sure during total darkness water is not evaporating and condensing on the tank cover? If the tank water is warm, it will evaporate and condense. During the daylight the tank light will dry the cover under the light, but not at night.] The surface disturbance might, if it is beyond what it should be. I never had this problem. Plants being pushed into a corner suggests too much movement.

Floating plants are fast growing, so they need good light (compared to slower-growing plants), and good nutrition to balance. Floating plants have the aerial advantage, which refers to the uptake of CO2 from the air rather than relying on CO2 in the water, and plants do this about four times faster (by air) so this should not be an issue (lack of carbon). It seems Flourish Comprehensive Supplement was added (good) but only once and the plants died within the first five days.

The light is important from the perspective of spectrum. My tanks had moderate, which some would probably think more of as low, light, but the spectrum was good and the floaters did well. Duration can matter, if it extends beyond the balance with the nutrients. Plants will only photosynthesize if everything they need is available.

I think someone mentioned the tropical species and two temperate species of Frogbit, and they are not distinguishable by the leaves but only if they flower. Mine did, which is how I was able to discern it was the temperate species. I had this floater for many years, but the permanent tropical temperatures I am sure kept it from really thriving, but it was generally doing well nonetheless.

When all is said and done, not all plants will grow in all aquaria. Different types of algae can appear in this aquarium but not the others. Plants are not much different, and there is the issue of allelopathy. A change in conditions involving the light or nutrients or water parameters can upset things.

Thanks for such a detailed and comprehensive message!
You did mention the different species of frogbit, the one I was sold was labelled as
" Tropica Limnobium laevigatum, 1-2-Grow! Tissue Culture Pot"

I have carefully dosed the tank with Seachem Flourish a couple of times since, but only one dose before the frogbit died.

It didn't transition from green to yellow to brown, I think that would suggest deficiencies? But rather it "melted" from a pale green to a slightly translucent brown. I think I will give floaters another chance at some point, maybe just bad beginner luck and inexperience.

 

[rebe]

Well you landed in the sweet spot! Luck of the Irish

I'd say it was about my turn for a bit of that luck!

 

[Byron]

No, I've not read about that in terms of fish/aquarium keeping until now. This is what I can find online in terms of my lighting:

"With Sunny LED mode which is 6500k for the daylight lighting, then a Sunny/Blue mode for sunrise and sunset and then an ultra cool Moonlight mode for night viewing!"
( link to website )

So if that's what we're going for, then I hope that website is right!

Light seems good. Be brief with the dawn/dusk periods, 30-45 minutes, no less than 30, but not beyond an hour. And moonlight, as little as possible. Light is an issue for fish, more than plants. Consistency is the key, same time every day for changes and durations, and a period of total black room darkness.

 

[rebe]

Light seems good. Be brief with the dawn/dusk periods, 30-45 minutes, no less than 30, but not beyond an hour. And moonlight, as little as possible. Light is an issue for fish, more than plants. Consistency is the key, same time every day for changes and durations, and a period of total black room darkness.

Would it be fine if I just did "daylight mode" for the same amount at the same time everyday, and didn't bother with the other settings? So far the light in terms of when and how much has been pretty random, but only plants so far. Today I got a timer outlet extension, set for 14:00 - 21:00. My plants are all "beginner level", would you think they would need more than the seven hours?

 

[Byron]

Thanks for such a detailed and comprehensive message!
You did mention the different species of frogbit, the one I was sold was labelled as
" Tropica Limnobium laevigatum, 1-2-Grow! Tissue Culture Pot"

I have carefully dosed the tank with Seachem Flourish a couple of times since, but only one dose before the frogbit died.

It didn't transition from green to yellow to brown, I think that would suggest deficiencies? But rather it "melted" from a pale green to a slightly translucent brown. I think I will give floaters another chance at some point, maybe just bad beginner luck and inexperience.

That is the tropical species, at least the name is correct for this one. Here's a couple photos of my Frogbit when it bloomed.

 

[rebe]

That is the tropical species, at least the name is correct for this one. Here's a couple photos of my Frogbit when it bloomed.

Very picturesque! Thank you for sharing

 

[Byron]

Would it be fine if I just did "daylight mode" for the same amount at the same time everyday, and didn't bother with the other settings? So far the light in terms of when and how much has been pretty random, but only plants so far. Today I got a timer outlet extension, set for 14:00 - 21:00. My plants are all "beginner level", would you think they would need more than the seven hours?

First, when the tank light comes on, and when it goes off, there must be ambient light in the room. This alleviates the shock to the fish which can lead to severe stress. It takes fish about 30 minutes to adjust to different light levels, and they should never be fed or water changed or anything until after that period (in the morning). You might find more info in my article on light, here:

Contact Support

The dawn and dusk settings are an attempt to recreate this same gradual on/off. That in itself is good, just make sure there is again ambient room light when these periods come on and go off. Seven hours of tank light is adequate.

Now, problems with these non-day settings...they can contribute to problem algae. Each plant species needs a specific intensity of light for photosynthesis to function. Sufficient nutrients must also be available for the same period. If they are, then the plants will photosynthesize full out and all is well. But if the light is on beyond what the plants can use, photosynthesis slows and algae may take the advantage. So those of us with natural method (low-tech) planted tanks aim for the duration period (full "daylight" lighting) that is not beyond what the plants need. I have never had LED lighting, just T8 fluorescent, but I had it worked out to seven hours a day of light without any problem algae. Being retired, I had the light come on around 9 am when it was fairly bright daylight, and go off at 4 pm while it was still daylight; this was in winter. Before I retired, on a different schedule, I had a light in the fish room that was also timed to come on about 15 minutes before the tank light went off, and remain on for about an hour after the tank light was off (the morning didn't matter, it was always daylight). This gave the fish the ambient room light to avoid shocking them.