Any body up for a challenge??

[WhistlingBadger]

Lots of yelling, very little calm consideration of other viewpoints. I feel like we're better than this. Maybe we should all take a deep breath and calm down.

*thump, thump thump* Is this thing on??

Holy smoke, kids. @Chad's right. Here. You're welcome.

 

[The Lumpfish Guy]

I'm just saying these methods are not set in stone (law), they are experimental

I think you have a poor grasp of what experimental actually means.

*thump, thump thump* Is this thing on??

Holy smoke, kids. @Chad's right. Here. You're welcome.

I'm not debating chlorine/ chloramine removal

The OP suggested an experiment, on an animal/animals which has the potential to cause suffering or harm, in their house as a "Challenge"
This is not a topic to be bandied about as a challenge.
I may seem like a fanatic about this but it is serious and legally and morally important.
That is where I held my objection.

 

[itiwhetu]

Hi firstly I would like to thank everyone who has contributed to this post. It is great to see there is passion out there.
It is a shame it has been tarnished and is now not a happy place to come for any of us. If someone wants to start a new post around the original subject ( Dechlorinating ) that would be great and I will be happy to contribute.
Just remember we all experiment all the time, this is not an exact science. And the more aggressive your approach to fish keeping and the advice you give, the more experimental you will be seen to be being from the outside community.

 

[Fishmanic]

Removing chloramines
Look here

 

[itiwhetu]

Removing chloramines
Look here

This is what I was heading towards, activated carbon filtration, biological filtration ( plants ) and an acid environment.

 

[itiwhetu]

Forgive me, because I'm a chemistry dunce - but even if we left the environmental impact aside (which we shouldn't) it wouldn't even work for hard water in the long term, would it? Only from my little research and discussion with you and @essjay about my hard source water (253ppm) with a KH of 10, and wanting a softer water tank for my otocinclus, even if I used organics like peat, driftwood, almond leaves etc, while they would help, my KH would buffer this and bring the water back to a harder GH, causing fluctuations each time I did a water change.

I don't think it's as easy as making any water soft, unless the KH is low enough for the organics to actually reduce the GH ? Or maybe I'm just confusing myself even more here

Do a google search reducing gh hardness. One option is peat.

 

[AilyNC]

Interesting debate here. Overall I think it's quite civil - disagreeing is normal. The issue of animal law wouldn't apply to fish keeping in your home & whether you let water stand, don't use Conditioner or use lots of sold additives.

My only input really is this - the thread is full of anecdotal evidence & it's not needed when you have research & evidence on the subject already out there. Some good scientific links in this thread. I would advise sticking to what is proven & tested to be safe as that's the most ethical approach & one supported by science.

 

[AdoraBelle Dearheart]

Do a google search reducing gh hardness. One option is peat.

I have done some research. I'm chemistry challenged, so I admit a lot of it is beyond me, but I won't use peat because of the destruction of natural habitats that peat collecting causes.

But from my limited understanding, using botanicals to try to make my water softer won't work anyway. I was trying to find out because I bought otocinclus before I knew their soft water requirements, and even though they seemed to thrive in my hard water (253ppm/15 dGH), even appearing to be carrying eggs and spawn:

I found out they need water much softer than mine. I moved the guppies and shrimp they were with out, and began mixing my tapwater with rainwater, or RO when rainwater isn't available. A 50/50 mix to make it soft enough. Which seems to be working fine. But I believe if I were to use straight tap water with my GH of 253ppm and a KH of 10, that even with peat or other botanicals, the KH of my water would buffer the pH lowering effects of the botanicals, and wouldn't lower my GH at all, which is what I really need to lower. So RO water is really needed to actually make the water softer.

But again, chemistry idiot here, I may have this completely wrong.

 

[itiwhetu]

I have done some research. I'm chemistry challenged, so I admit a lot of it is beyond me, but I won't use peat because of the destruction of natural habitats that peat collecting causes.

But from my limited understanding, using botanicals to try to make my water softer won't work anyway. I was trying to find out because I bought otocinclus before I knew their soft water requirements, and even though they seemed to thrive in my hard water (253ppm/15 dGH), even appearing to be carrying eggs and spawn:
View attachment 117510

I found out they need water much softer than mine. I moved the guppies and shrimp they were with out, and began mixing my tapwater with rainwater, or RO when rainwater isn't available. A 50/50 mix to make it soft enough. Which seems to be working fine. But I believe if I were to use straight tap water with my GH of 253ppm and a KH of 10, that even with peat or other botanicals, the KH of my water would buffer the pH lowering effects of the botanicals, and wouldn't lower my GH at all, which is what I really need to lower. So RO water is really needed to actually make the water softer.

But again, chemistry idiot here, I may have this completely wrong.

I just use the peat pots you buy at the garden center. It doesn't take much to make a difference.

 

[Chad]

I assume this is directed at me, I think you might have missed the OP's point.
and we are also talking Chloramine not chlorine

Directed at everyone.
I mention chloramine in my post.

My point is that there isn't a need for anyone to repeat experimentation that has already been done on a topic that all the information we need already exists on. While this is a fun academic discussion where people can learn, an experiment isn't needed, just research on the existing literature.

 

[a guppy fan]

I don't know about the UK, but I think the AWA only applies to research facilities. We do trial and error all the time with pets without even thinking about it. I don't think anyone is going to go to jail for experimenting with alternative dechlorination methods.

I'm a bit disappointed with the uncivil tone that many people are taking in this thread. It feels like a Facebook political discussion: Lots of yelling, very little calm consideration of other viewpoints. I feel like we're better than this. Maybe we should all take a deep breath and calm down.

Same here! No one is going to be won over

 

[Obsessed with fish]

Exactly you are not the target audience of this I'm hoping some of the American's or Brit's will jump on. You guys are just fine doing what you are doing. But have a look if you want to. It will be fun. And hopefully we all learn something along the way

im from australia and maybye i could grab water from lakes or rivers for my water.

 

[Essjay]

The 'experiment' was not using natural water sources but water treated by water providers with chloramine.

Chad has already said that enough experiments have already been done so no further experiments are needed.

 

[Chad]

The 'experiment' was not using natural water sources but water treated by water providers with chloramine.

Chad has already said that enough experiments have already been done so no further experiments are needed.

That's right. This is a known thing. It isn't something we need to figure out, we already have figured it out. These folks just need to study what is out there and learn the existing science.