Any body up for a challenge??

[mbsqw1d]

And the PH element is more to do with the resulting ammonia after the use of a chemical dechlorinater (sodium thiosulphate). With lower Ph (<7) the outcome is less the toxic ammonium ion.

 

[madmark285]

Is there any body out there who wants to see if we can develop a system that requires us to use no dechlorinating products.

What I was thinking about, my fill system be a tube connect to a faucet on end, the other end will be a piece of PVC pipe filled with activated carbon which is placed in the tank. I will do a slow fill to filter the water. The sump will have an overflow drain in case my ADD kicks in while watching a Buffalo Bills games, no flooding out the aquarium room.

Sounds good on paper. Is activated carbon a dechlorinating product?

 

[itiwhetu]

And the PH element is more to do with the resulting ammonia after the use of a chemical dechlorinater (sodium thiosulphate). With lower Ph (<7) the outcome is less the toxic ammonium ion.

exacatly

 

[mbsqw1d]

May i ask why you are looking at avoiding water conditioners? It doesn't appear to be due to cost, as the alternate methods employ items with their own costs such as active carbon and UV

 

[itiwhetu]

I would encourage everyone to try and run slightly acidic tanks for that exact reason. Ammonia will convert to ammonium in an acid environment

 

[Colin_T]

What was the size of the water change you were doing when the fish went belly up.

50%

 

[mbsqw1d]

What I was thinking about, my fill system be a tube connect to a faucet on end, the other end will be a piece of PVC pipe filled with activated carbon which is placed in the tank. I will do a slow fill to filter the water. The sump will have an overflow drain in case my ADD kicks in while watching a Buffalo Bills games, no flooding out the aquarium room.

Sounds good on paper. Is activated carbon a dechlorinating product?

Activated carbon is used principally for dechlorination or removal of organic compounds and the colour from water. Does have the added benefit of removing chemicals such as fluorine and other contaminants.

It would be difficult to know how much carbon media you would require on your system. Is the design that water would only pass through it once, when entering the tank?

 

[itiwhetu]

As fish keepers we really don't know what things like EDTA's and Thiosulphate does we are told it is safe, but is it. We have to deal with the chlorine lets do that, but not by adding another chemical that is foreign to the natural environment we are trying to emulate.

 

[itiwhetu]

50%

So have you thought that may have been more the problem than the Chlorine

 

[mbsqw1d]

As fish keepers we really don't know what things like EDTA's and Thiosulphate does we are told it is safe, but is it. We have to deal with the chlorine lets do that, but not by adding another chemical that is foreign to the natural environment we are trying to emulate.

Seachem Prime for example, which is sodium thiosulphate. Reacts with chlorine and water to form, amongst other things, hydrochloric acid.
sodium thiosulphate + chlorine + water -> sodium sulphate + sulphur + hydrochloric acid
Na2S2O3 + Cl2 + H2O —> Na2S04 + S + 2HCl

The same sodium thiosulphate reacts with the hydrochloric acid, to form sulphur, salt and water
sodium thiosulphate + hydrochloric acid -> salt + water + sulphur + sulphur dioxide
Na2S2O3 + 2HCl —> 2NaCl + H2O + S + SO2

There are some worrying chemicals appearing throughout the reaction, and so this probably adds to the argument for performing this dechlorination outside of the aquarium ie pretreat the water prior to water change

 

[itiwhetu]

Seachem Prime for example, which is sodium thiosulphate. Reacts with chlorine and water to form, amongst other things, hydrochloric acid.
sodium thiosulphate + chlorine + water -> sodium sulphate + sulphur + hydrochloric acid
Na2S2O3 + Cl2 + H2O —> Na2S04 + S + 2HCl

The same sodium thiosulphate reacts with the hydrochloric acid, to form sulphur, salt and water
sodium thiosulphate + hydrochloric acid -> salt + water + sulphur + sulphur dioxide
Na2S2O3 + 2HCl —> 2NaCl + H2O + S + SO2

There are some worrying chemicals appearing throughout the reaction, and so this probably adds to the argument for performing this dechlorination outside of the aquarium ie pretreat the water prior to water change

And then the fish have to deal with that!!!

 

[mbsqw1d]

Yep.. I'm slowly putting myself off using Prime here lol
"Remember that DOC (dissolved organic carbon like tannins), not just EDTA, chelates heavy metals (my book, p 14) Thus, for an established tank with plentiful DOC, you may not need a water conditioner that neutralizes heavy metals.

I'd say that tapwater contaminated with heavy metals is not that frequent a problem. If your fish, plants, and especially, invertebrates do fine in fresh tapwater, don't worry about heavy metals.

Chlorine and chloramine are probably more frequent problems." [Diana Walstad, 2007]

 

[Retired Viking]

I use mostly ro water with a 5 to 1 ratio to treated tap water which I let sit for at least an hour or two after treating it. I am old school so back in those times I was use to letting the water age by letting it sit for a day or two with an aerator or longer before doing a WC. This last water change I went to 6 to 1 ratio and dropped my hardness to 40ppm.

 

[mbsqw1d]

I use mostly ro water with a 5 to 1 ratio to treated tap water which I let sit for at least an hour or two after treating it. I am old school so back in those times I was use to letting the water age by letting it sit for a day or two with an aerator or longer before doing a WC. This last water change I went to 6 to 1 ratio and dropped my hardness to 40ppm.

Do you RO your own water VK? Chlorine/chloramine is not removed by RO as far as I'm aware. Do you treat all the water or just the tapwater you add to the RO?

 

[Retired Viking]

I purchase my RO water from a water dealer and it usually comes in at 1-3 ppm so if there is anything it is not much. It also goes through a charcoal filter too.