Any body up for a challenge??

[mbsqw1d]

I am still figuring out Chloramine. But from my experience passing chlorinated water through a spray nozzle on a hose basically gets rid of the chlorine, the little bit left is dealt with in the tank. I have been told off on this site for saying this, but here is what I do. When I do a water change it is 25% and I fill the tank with the garden hose, spray nozzle, cold water. This perks up the fish, basically giving them a tropical down pour. I have bred dozens of species of fish. All of the more difficult ones have spawned partly because of this method of water changing. Just something for you to think about.

Especially cories

 

[Byron]

Different thought, I've wondered if it would be possible to set up a tank with continuous and slow water coming in (from tap) and then out (to the veg patch) at such a rate that temperature is able to be stable, but that no other filtration or chemicals are needed.

No, this will not work if you have chlorine or chloramine in your tap water. It will seriously harm and likely kill the fish.

It is the initial influx of chlorine/chloramine that is deadly. A conditioner that deals with both will detoxify them instantly, making the water safe. There is no alternative so far as "immediate" use of the water is concerned. Chlorine will dissipate out of water in 24 hours; agitating the water very vigorously (as when it is speeding through city water pipes) also achieves this. But note that in these cases, the fresh water must be made safe and cannot be immediately used. If one is doing diligent water changes of 50-70% of the tank, any chlorine in the fresh water will kill the fish before it ever dissipates out.

Chloramine I am not that familiar with (in terms of its break-down) as it is (fortunately) not added to my water supply. Chlorine rapidly burns the fish's gills. Unless you have apparatus sufficient to rid the chlorinated water of all deadly chlorine, using a reliable water conditioner seems a better option. Provided it is not overdosed.

 

[Byron]

I am still figuring out Chloramine. But from my experience passing chlorinated water through a spray nozzle on a hose basically gets rid of the chlorine, the little bit left is dealt with in the tank. I have been told off on this site for saying this, but here is what I do. When I do a water change it is 25% and I fill the tank with the garden hose, spray nozzle, cold water. This perks up the fish, basically giving them a tropical down pour. I have bred dozens of species of fish. All of the more difficult ones have spawned partly because of this method of water changing. Just something for you to think about.

There are some unknown factors involved, namely the level of chlorine in the water, and the degree of agitation. Back in the 1980's, our local water supply was chlorinated but minimally, and no one in the hobby ever used a conditioner. But one summer a bacterial bloom in the water reservoir caused them to add more chlorine, and everyone who did a water change after this without knowing of the increased chlorine level had dead fish.

 

[itiwhetu]

I agree with 50-70% water changes it won't work with 25% water change and a good biological filter and mechanical filter it works fine. No need to dechlorinate.

 

[itiwhetu]

There are some unknown factors involved, namely the level of chlorine in the water, and the degree of agitation. Back in the 1980's, our local water supply was chlorinated but minimally, and no one in the hobby ever used a conditioner. But one summer a bacterial bloom in the water reservoir caused them to add more chlorine, and everyone who did a water change after this without knowing of the increased chlorine level had dead fish.

And the levels now are?

 

[itiwhetu]

This is an international forum, every region has their own issues. I am putting this out there as an alternative method of fish keeping, so aquarists can see other options and try them if they want to. It is always good to challenge yourself and ask questions about why you are doing something.

 

[Byron]

I agree with 50-70% water changes it won't work with 25% water change and a good biological filter and mechanical filter it works fine. No need to dechlorinate.

It only works if the level of chlorine is minimal to begin with, but even that is a risk. Mechanical and biological filtratio has no effect on chlorine. As for chloramine, that depends upon the level, as a significant influx of "ammonia" can easily overwhelm the system. This is the aim behind conditioners like Prime, that detoxify ammonia/nitrite/nitrate in the source water initially, but temporarily, allowing the plants/AOB/NOB to "catch up" in a day or two--hopefully.

The chlorine level in my source water now is more "normal" than it was in the 1980's, but I use a dechlorinator and have no issues--unless I forget. And twice I have done this in 20 years. Within a matter of minutes, the fish were all at the surface at the opposite end of the tank from where the tap water was entering (via Python), gasping with extreme red gills. And the tank had barely begun to refill.

The opposite side of this is that a 25% water change is much less effective than a 70% change. The fish would benefit more from the larger change, with an appropriate dechlorinator.

 

[itiwhetu]

I still don't see how a 70% water change with town supply can be in any way beneficial to the fish or the biological system that we are trying to maintain.

 

[Colin_T]

The drawback to not dechlorinating the water before adding it to the tank is you don't know what the chlorine level is. You might get away with adding chlorinated tap water to a tank for many years, but one day it will bite you on the backside.

I used to add dechlorinator to my tank and then fill them with tap water directly from the hose. I did this for years and one day I was filling my tank and all the fish went belly up within minutes of the new water being added. It turned out the water company had done work on the pipes and added more chlorine to kill off anything in it. Subsequently there was a huge amount of chlorine in my tank and it killed everything.

You never know when the water company is going to do work on pipes or if/ when they are going to increase the chlorine levels in the water supply. It is much safer to dechlorinate the new tap water before adding it to the tank.

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Chloramine is a mixture of chlorine and ammonia. The ammonia binds to the chlorine and keeps it active for a lot longer than chlorine on its own. Aeration does not break the chlorine ammonia bond and you need something to break the chlorine and ammonia molecules apart so the chlorine can come out of the water. When you break the chlorine ammonia bond, you are left with chlorine that can come out of the water and ammonia that is left behind in the water.

Water conditioners that deal with chloramine will usually neutralise the chlorine and bind with the ammonia to make it less harmful for a period of time. The biological filter in the aquarium should then be able to use the ammonia in the water and break it down before it harms the fish.

 

[itiwhetu]

The drawback to not dechlorinating the water before adding it to the tank is you don't know what the chlorine level is. You might get away with adding chlorinated tap water to a tank for many years, but one day it will bite you on the backside.

I used to add dechlorinator to my tank and then fill them with tap water directly from the hose. I did this for years and one day I was filling my tank and all the fish went belly up within minutes of the new water being added. It turned out the water company had done work on the pipes and added more chlorine to kill off anything in it. Subsequently there was a huge amount of chlorine in my tank and it killed everything.

You never know when the water company is going to do work on pipes or if/ when they are going to increase the chlorine levels in the water supply. It is much safer to dechlorinate the new tap water before adding it to the tank.

---------------------
Chloramine is a mixture of chlorine and ammonia. The ammonia binds to the chlorine and keeps it active for a lot longer than chlorine on its own. Aeration does not break the chlorine ammonia bond and you need something to break the chlorine and ammonia molecules apart so the chlorine can come out of the water. When you break the chlorine ammonia bond, you are left with chlorine that can come out of the water and ammonia that is left behind in the water.

Water conditioners that deal with chloramine will usually neutralise the chlorine and bind with the ammonia to make it less harmful for a period of time. The biological filter in the aquarium should then be able to use the ammonia in the water and break it down before it harms the fish.

What was the size of the water change you were doing when the fish went belly up. Also i understand that chloramine will break down with acid. This is why I believe that in a soft acid system it should be able to be broken down by the filtration. Internal filters with activated carbon sleeves

 

[mbsqw1d]

So is it swapping the use of water conditioner for active carbon?

 

[itiwhetu]

So is it swapping the use of water conditioner for active carbon?

basically but also using the plants to clean and maintain the system. This is why I say 30-50% of the tank volume should be in plant.

 

[itiwhetu]

So is it swapping the use of water conditioner for active carbon?

Planted just like your tank, what I think is a fantastic looking furnished aquarium

 

[mbsqw1d]

Planted just like your tank, what I think is a fantastic looking furnished aquarium

Thank you kindly sir!

Another method of dechlorination is using UV I believe. UV light is
also capable of destroying chloramine
compounds, although requires a higher 'dose'.

 

[itiwhetu]

Thank you kindly sir!

Another method of dechlorination is using UV I believe. UV light is
also capable of destroying chloramine
compounds, although requires a higher 'dose'.

Yep that will work, rather do that than use a water conditioner