Albino On Aquabid

[Never2ManyBettas]

Albino bettas are rare... are fertile..... but not usually the strongest health wise. You would need to get a spawn sibling... and even then you probably would only get a few with slight colorless patches.

$250 is not unheard of for a betta. The only reason this one is priced at that amount is because it is an albino. It sure doesn't have the finnage.

No one has a true albino strain going. Unless there was an albino mate for it... it wouldn't make sense to get that one. Giants seem to have a shorter life span.... and then to add albinism.... I would be surprised if it lived a year.

Neal.... that is a giant. Wassan is a good breeder and if he says it is a giant.... it is. It also is young and has quite a bit of growing to do. How big it finally gets is all dependent on the owner and the conditions they give it.

 

[GuppyDude]

......

Very cool fish, no way im throwing 250 at it thogh.

Albinos are not sterile, you must be thinking melano females. Never2ManyBettas has it right, is you like the lighter coloration you would be better off finding some yellows or golds, albinos like the melanos have been known to have many health problems and the fry of 2 albino parents rarely survive to maturity, it's really a freak accurance that you were able to even locate one.

I know wasan as well, it is likely a giant, but i dont see any point in investing in a fish that will only survive a year at most. id pass on this one, even if u got this fish your would need another albino male to raise albino fry from her.

 

[Synirr]

No one has a true albino strain going.

That's the point
Wasan is notorious for overpricing his giants as well. The two marble giants also on Aquabid are $150 each.

I'm not sure where you're getting your genetic info on this one, but you most certainly don't need a spawn sibling to produce more albinos, and an F1 cross wouldn't produce fish with colourless patches unless they also carry the marble gene. If you were to breed it to an unrelated fish, in the F2 you'd theoretically get 25% albinos, but in reality it would be less because they are so fragile... but assuming two of opposite sexes survive, there's your pair. The only reasons I wouldn't risk spending that much on that fish is the chance of it dying before being bred and the chance that it could be sterile. There is a form of albinism in humans associated with sterility, but I'm uncertain whether the same form exists in bettas and it's a pretty big risk to take for $250.

GuppyDude -- Anybody can do yellows, and I already have some golds... the point is the rarity, not the colouration. I've located many more than just this one, but none others that were for sale.... they're rare, but they exist. I know people who have found albino VTs in chain stores.
Also, as mentioned, you wouldn't need another albino to get albino fry, it would just take a couple of generations.

 

[Never2ManyBettas]

No.... I think there is more to the genetics than that.... mainly because if it was that easy to suddenly get a spawn of which 25% were albinos... I would think they would be seen more often.

Here..... this is from Victoria Parnell from her site

http/p105.ezboard.com/fchampionbettas308...opicID=60.topic



True albino bettas occur rarely, and when they do occur they are usually very weak and do not survive long enough to successfully spawn. The only one I've heard of that successfully produced offspring was from a black/orange marble line from Marianne Lewis, but that fish did not produce albinos when spawned:



F2 from Marianne Lewis albino female:



I don't know whether Marianne was able to linebreed the fish, but it might be an interesting question to ask. So as to the albino x albino question...who knows?

Albinos can show up in any line. I think whoever you got your information from might be confusing true albinism with the cellophane betta -- a colorless type that comes from marble spawns -- instead of a true albino. Albino bettas are colorless, but also have red eyes and are usually blind. Some bettas have red/pink eyes but show color on the bodies -- THEY ARE NOT ALBINOS. I once saw a guy on Aquabid trying to sell a multicolored fish with pink eyes as an albino, and boy did he jack the price up high. He thought he hit the jackpot. He posted pics of that fish everywhere. He got argumentative when others told him it wasn't an albino. An albino is the complete absense of pigment, if there is some pigment it is NOT an albino. At the most it is a partial albino, which is nowhere near as rare.

The one Echo got from Gilbert Limhengco (in his avatar) seems to fit the bill for a true albino. Unfortunately, that fish died shortly after Echo got it.

 

[Synirr]

Albinism is a Mendelian trait. It is a mutation at a single locus. It can show up in any spawn due to random mutation... the same process which gave us VTs and CTs. The reason you do not see spawns producing the expected ratios of albinos is not because it's a complex trait to achieve genetically, but because the fish are so weak most die before you ever notice they were albino, or don't hatch at all. That's the trick, producing a strong albino line. It is not easy, which is why I want to give it a shot.

Like human albinos, most albino bettas are not blind like the link says, but their eyes are usually extremely sensitive to light and this can cause problems. However, also like with human albinos, this occurs to varying degrees and isn't always debilitating by any means.

Just for fun, you can actually mathematically estimate what percentage of the betta population carries the albino gene
When calculating allele frequencies, we consider two equations:
p + q = 1 where p is the dominant allele (normal) and q is the recessive allele (albino)
p² + 2pq + q² = 1, where p² is homozygous dominant (normal), q² is homozygous recessive (albino), and 2pq is the heterozygote

From everything I've read, the estimated number of albino bettas is 1 in every 10,000, or a frequency of .0001, so q² = .0001. Solve for q and you get .01, from which you can determine that p = .99. Plug it in to 2pq and you get .0198, or about 2%... which is basically the same rate at which the gene occurs in humans

Next time you're in a room full of people, think about it... 1 in 50 carries the albino gene!

 

[Never2ManyBettas]

I am just curious where you are even getting 1 in 10,000. In actuality there is no real idea how often an albino shows up. Some sources say 1 in 10,000 make it to spawning.... some say 1 in 10,000 spawns produce an albino... Definately not 1 in 10,000 bettas is albino. It is all ambiguous because it has not been determined with any certainty.

Now I know you did that for the sake of arguement.... but just to be devil's advocate.... if Marianne Lewis successfully spawned an albino.... and has the F2 generation... quite frankly... she is the only one with the genetic material to work any kind of strain. Not to mention she has the resources.

Which brings it all back to.... why even try to create a strain of at best weak fish? I wouldn't doubt it falls into the same category as the pure white horse. Too many recessives for survival.

 

[Synirr]

1 in 10,000 is just the number I've seen, I never said it was right. You've got to remember, too, that a lot of albinos die young and go unnoticed, so any number is probably going to be a gross underestimate.

"Too many recessives for survive"? Recessive traits aren't inherently worse. Having lobster hands is a dominant trait, and in bettas plakat finnage is recessive, though it's obviously a clear advantage in the wild. The reason white animals sometimes have problems is due to the roll melanin plays in development. It does more than just serve as pigment.

Just because it hasn't been done before doesn't mean it can't be done. That kind of attitude will get you nowhere. The point is that through linebreeding you could theoretically produce a strong albino line.... there are strong albinos out there. Like I said, I personally have seen photographic proof of VT albinos found in chain stores, and hell, if they can survive in that kind of setup without any special care they can't be made of glass. Part of the problem is that there are so few albinos to work with, and when one of those rareties shows up in a random shop like that, it doesn't always get noticed by a breeder.... someone on a different forum (and possibly on this one too, I forgot the username?) found an albino female like that and has no intention of ever breeding it.

 

[ManyFISH4Me]

i think I sa an albino Vt at the store. How do I know?

 

[Synirr]

i think I sa an albino Vt at the store. How do I know?

Has to be solid white and have red pupils to be albino.
EDIT: Well, white/clear.... betta skin tone is kinda yellow-ish.

 

[ManyFISH4Me]

I'll have to go back and look. i know he was very white. You could see all his veins. I'll have to look at his eyes.