20 Gallon Salt Water Set-Up

[GAB99]

ok, sorry about that, i knew i might be getting a response like that.

any way, what can and cant take out nitrates and phosphates?

i was thinking of starting out with some mushrooms and christmas tree coral and maybe some other coral that are easy to take care of, then evetually goin to bubble,brain and other hard corals


and will the addition of say more 5 lbs of more live rock be enough to get more fish than the current stock and still be able to have coral? providing the fact if you can tell me how to mix my own water?

and my dad wants an anemone...do they get along with corals? do their stings hurt us?

 

[-Nemo-]

ok, sorry about that, i knew i might be getting a response like that.

any way, what can and cant take out nitrates and phosphates?

i was thinking of starting out with some mushrooms and christmas tree coral and maybe some other coral that are easy to take care of, then evetually goin to bubble,brain and other hard corals


and will the addition of say more 5 lbs of more live rock be enough to get more fish than the current stock and still be able to have coral? providing the fact if you can tell me how to mix my own water?

and my dad wants an anemone...do they get along with corals? do their stings hurt us?

Nitrates and phosphates: Best way to control these is to just do constant water changes. In addition, using RO water will help prevent phosphates, because most tap water has phosphates in it (I should also note here that most people consider RO water a MUST if you are planning to keep corals). Also, I think it was mentioned earlier, a sump will help because of the extra water volume and also macroalgae will help as well (and of course a good mechanical filtration system).

If you want to stretch the barrier of fish capacity, definitely a protein skimmer IMO and perhaps look into getting a small sump.

Anemones are VERY sensitive to your water conditions and any changes that may be unfavorable. At the very least, they should only be added to mature, stable tanks. Anemones in reef tanks can be very difficult and is usually not recommended because an anemone will sting and potentially kill coral which are within it's range. Keep in mind that most anemones will eventually get a foot in diameter which is just about larger than your tank.

 

[GAB99]

ok, sorry about that, i knew i might be getting a response like that.

any way, what can and cant take out nitrates and phosphates?

i was thinking of starting out with some mushrooms and christmas tree coral and maybe some other coral that are easy to take care of, then evetually goin to bubble,brain and other hard corals


and will the addition of say more 5 lbs of more live rock be enough to get more fish than the current stock and still be able to have coral? providing the fact if you can tell me how to mix my own water?

and my dad wants an anemone...do they get along with corals? do their stings hurt us?

Nitrates and phosphates: Best way to control these is to just do constant water changes. In addition, using RO water will help prevent phosphates, because most tap water has phosphates in it (I should also note here that most people consider RO water a MUST if you are planning to keep corals). Also, I think it was mentioned earlier, a sump will help because of the extra water volume and also macroalgae will help as well (and of course a good mechanical filtration system).

If you want to stretch the barrier of fish capacity, definitely a protein skimmer IMO and perhaps look into getting a small sump.

Anemones are VERY sensitive to your water conditions and any changes that may be unfavorable. At the very least, they should only be added to mature, stable tanks. Anemones in reef tanks can be very difficult and is usually not recommended because an anemone will sting and potentially kill coral which are within it's range. Keep in mind that most anemones will eventually get a foot in diameter which is just about larger than your tank.

how much is it usually to set up a sump? and my lfs has RO water... does this come premixed or do you mix it?

how much is a protein skimmer that is of decent quality?

btw the tank is 2ft not 1 and i was right that there is no such thing as a reef safe anemone.. im not stickin my hand in there if he eventually gets one.

 

[seffieuk]

how much is it usually to set up a sump? and my lfs has RO water... does this come premixed or do you mix it?

how much is a protein skimmer that is of decent quality?

btw the tank is 2ft not 1 and i was right that there is no such thing as a reef safe anemone.. im not stickin my hand in there if he eventually gets one.

Setting up a sump can be as costly as you make it - you can buy a secondhand one, drill your tank, get the pipework etc for about £100 but you could also pay hundreds.

Some LFS sell premade RO salted water some don't.

Again, for a small nano skimmer you can buy one from about £15 to hundreds of £s - second hand is a good bet. But I ran a cheap boyu on my nano and it did the job.

Anemones are reef safe, they live on reefs - they are the same as many animals that live on the reef, they have to fight for space and to do this they use the weapons they have. But as Ak said, Anemones are not a suitable addition for a new nano tank, nor imo a nano tank that belongs to someone just starting out with Marines. I did keep a small BTA in my nano for a while and he grew to nearly ten inches, luckily I was in the position to get him a tank more suitable to his size.

My friend we are trying to help you, thanks for listening to us, we appreciate it, we all started learning somewhere let's hope your dad listens to you

Seffie x

 

[GAB99]

how much is it usually to set up a sump? and my lfs has RO water... does this come premixed or do you mix it?

how much is a protein skimmer that is of decent quality?

btw the tank is 2ft not 1 and i was right that there is no such thing as a reef safe anemone.. im not stickin my hand in there if he eventually gets one.

Setting up a sump can be as costly as you make it - you can buy a secondhand one, drill your tank, get the pipework etc for about £100 but you could also pay hundreds.

Some LFS sell premade RO salted water some don't.

Again, for a small nano skimmer you can buy one from about £15 to hundreds of £s - second hand is a good bet. But I ran a cheap boyu on my nano and it did the job.

Anemones are reef safe, they live on reefs - they are the same as many animals that live on the reef, they have to fight for space and to do this they use the weapons they have. But as Ak said, Anemones are not a suitable addition for a new nano tank, nor imo a nano tank that belongs to someone just starting out with Marines. I did keep a small BTA in my nano for a while and he grew to nearly ten inches, luckily I was in the position to get him a tank more suitable to his size.

My friend we are trying to help you, thanks for listening to us, we appreciate it, we all started learning somewhere let's hope your dad listens to you

Seffie x

the problem is that he did his own research and concluded that he really wants an anemone quote, but doesnt know how to care for one qoute==" ill get one that says easy on the label"=====fail

and he aggreed to the protein skimmer if we decide to get more fish later on than the previous 4

we are also getting 50/50 lighting for coral since we dont have 2 sockets, what kinds of coral can we keep with this light?

however he did say no sump because the lfs guys said all we needed is live rock and sand and fish and the lightng

 

[seffieuk]

50/50 I take it this is the 'technical term' from the lfs for one actinic blue and one marine white tube?

What have you currently got, T5 or T8 maybe?

Seffie x

 

[AK77]

ok, sorry about that, i knew i might be getting a response like that.

any way, what can and cant take out nitrates and phosphates?

i was thinking of starting out with some mushrooms and christmas tree coral and maybe some other coral that are easy to take care of, then evetually goin to bubble,brain and other hard corals


and will the addition of say more 5 lbs of more live rock be enough to get more fish than the current stock and still be able to have coral? providing the fact if you can tell me how to mix my own water?

and my dad wants an anemone...do they get along with corals? do their stings hurt us?

No problem.

If you re-read my post on the previous page, make a note of the different ways to combat nitrates and phosphates. When I first started, I found it very useful to keep a notepad with headings and a little explanation and makes a great reference point in a hurry.

Water changes - physically removing nitrates and phosphates, replacing with clean saltwater (this also replenishes trace elements that may have been consumed by the tank inhabitants)
Protein skimmer - removal of dissolved organic waste before it can breakdown into Nitrate and Phosphate, by forcing microbubbles through the water. The pollutants get stuck to the bubbles and get deposited into a collection cup. You'll be amazed at the gunk that comes out!
Phosban - Iron Oxide Hydroxide / Fe[sub]2[/sub]O[sub]3.[/sub] Tiny pellets that absorb phosphates directly from the water
Sump with refugium - growing macro algae to feed on nitrates and phosphates, while oxygenating your water at the same time.
Deep sandbed - as the name suggests, a sandbed 4" - 6" thick, best located in the sump in the refugium section. Its provides a home for anaerobic bacteria that consume nitrates

There are other techniques too which are can be quite dangerous. The use of ozone and also dosing the tank with vodka ( I kid you not lol )

As for the anenome, as Seffie and Nemo have mentioned, its not a good idea to have on in a tank your size. They do grow quite large, quite quickly and move around the tank to hunt. They are also very sensitive creatures and can nuke a tank rapidly if they die. Not only that, if any of your fish accidentally swim into the nem, it'll kill them.

 

[GAB99]

ill start with seffie and move down by indent/paragraphs

yes

t8,18" right now its daylight spectrum since its still a freshwater tank for 1 more day.

ok good

will do

where can we put phosban? and would 20lbs of sand be enough for a 4-6" sand bed on a 20 gal. high? 24"by12"

i doubt ill be dosing vodka lol.

this is what i was trying to tell my dad, not to mention that theyll kill corals whenever it decides to move, and it will kill the fishes we want to get (damsels can live in anemones right? and clowns can host to some corals as well right?)and corals only kill other corals and they have toxin, do some corals have lethal toxin to humans? i would want to aviod those lol

 

[AK77]

Probably not. I think the bag I bought was 20lbs and my tank has a base of 42cm and is about 2" at the back, sloping down to 1" at the front. Personally, if you are going to have DSB, I'd have a dedicated one located in a sump/refugium. That way you can put filter wool over one of the baffles and pretty much stop any food or fish poop getting into it. I did this on the 2ft sump I had underneath my Juwel Rio 180L and I never had to clean the sandbed.

You can put phosban in an external canister filter in a mesh bag or buy a purpose built reactor for it and have it on a seperate loop.

Yup, the nem is really not a good idea. If memory serves, all clownfish can host nems and I think the 3 spot damsel is immune to them too but, don't quote me on that.

I think virtually all corals contain toxins of one form or another. Its zoa's that contain palytoxin which is lethal if it enters the bloodstream. Many people keep zoa's and provided you take precautions like wearing gloves, there should be no issues at all.

Some corals are aggressive and can sting those around them. A good place to look is on www.liveaquaria.com. They have lots of information on there about fish, corals and inverts

 

[GAB99]

um if its ok with you can you put a sort of key to the slang? DSB IMO is something i'd say to someone i dont like lol.

ok ill have to figure something out as my dad doesnt want a sump (i knew it was too good to be true when the lfs guys said all you need is live sand and rock, power heads, lighting and then animals)

can clowns host coral too?

do these toxins get lethal to everything in high concentrations? is there a way to get rid of these toxins without excessive water changes like activated carbon? and then run phosban with it? and is there any special goves for handling these things?

i love live aquaria, we based our list on what they have in the site to special order in the lfs, i already knew about the coral stinging thing when i looked up bubble coral, so what would be an ideal distance to place corals apart from?

 

[AK77]

um if its ok with you can you put a sort of key to the slang? DSB IMO is something i'd say to someone i dont like lol.

ok ill have to figure something out as my dad doesnt want a sump (i knew it was too good to be true when the lfs guys said all you need is live sand and rock, power heads, lighting and then animals)

can clowns host coral too?

do these toxins get lethal to everything in high concentrations? is there a way to get rid of these toxins without excessive water changes like activated carbon? and then run phosban with it? and is there any special goves for handling these things?

i love live aquaria, we based our list on what they have in the site to special order in the lfs, i already knew about the coral stinging thing when i looked up bubble coral, so what would be an ideal distance to place corals apart from?

You can have the deep sandbed in the display tank. The only downside from this is that because your fish and other tank inhabitants will poop on it, you need to clean it from time to time. I'm just a fan of low maintenance fishkeeping, which is why i located mine in the sump lol. Have a read up on deep sandbeds, how they work, the advantages and disadvantages of having them and how to maintain them.

To be perfectly honest, the guys at the LFS are probably just trying to increase their sales revenue by pushing "live" sand. Unless the sand has actually come out of a working marine aquarium, then its pointless. The stuff in the polythene sacks that have been sat for months on end in a warehouse and then a shops shelf is..... just sand. The bacteria in it has long since died.

Clowns have been known to host all manner of things. There is not guarantee that they will host anything though... even a nem.

If you a had lot of corals and didn't perform a water change for months on end and ran no carbon to absorb it, then level of toxins could build up and may begin to impact upon the health of corals. Its not something to particularly worry about though as they are removed with normal water changes that you'll need to perform anyway. If a coral died then its advisable to remove it from the tank as quickly as possible, mainly to avoid the ammonia spike. I had a 5" leather toadstool that didn't survive the shipping and disintergrated in my tank within 24 hours. Although I did remove all the remains by syphoning it out of the tank, for 2-3 days my xenia and mushrooms looked pretty unhappy, so some toxins were probably released into the water as the toadstool distintergrated.

Again, I would emphasize that it is very unlikely that anything would happen to you if you decided to keep zoa's. You would need to have a cut on your finger and come into contact with the zoa. It is worth just wearing a normal pair of rubber gloves (like those worn for washing the dishes) when doing anything in the tank though. The gloves give you a better grip on the rocks, prevent you from getting stung by a bristleworm and stop you transfering pollutants from your hands into the tank. There was one case where a guy was removing nudibranch from an aquarium that he kept at work. The nudibranch feed on the zoa's and use their toxin as a defense mechanism. He'd removed all of the nudibranch he could find and saw one tiny one still on the glass, so without thinking, he squished it with his finger. This was sufficient for the toxin to enter the bloodstream and he had to be rushed to hospital. There is no antidote to palytoxin and he was lucky to survive. As I say, its very unlikely that anything would happen, its just worth mentioning and treating these creatures with the respect they deserve. You are much more likely to get stung by a bristleworm than anything else and that would only happen if you were handling the rocks.

I've not kept a bubble coral, so couldn't advise on the best positioning for it.

 

[GAB99]

have the protein skimmer, have 20 lbs of live rock and sand and the 50/50 ligting, have rubber gloves, have powerheads, anything else? ill need to make a list lol. every thing besides animals.

my dad doesnt want to get more sand than he needs to so 20lbs only
(ughh..thank god hes buyin everything so it wont be my fault if this goes kaplooy)

umm the lfs guy might have been refering to sand he was using but doesnt reg. sand turn into live sand eventually?

thanks about the clowns

can we grow macro algae outside the sump? this would be a great help and i can get rid of adding the extra filter.

and for the starter corals, just keep it to mushrooms and tree coral for now. this ok for starting out?


thank you so much for helping me out guys, you wont be dissapointed about the journal that will be starting soon! soory about the fact my dad doesnt want a sump or phosban either...

 

[-Nemo-]

don't forget the heater
hydrometer
Any various other test kits
The salt, of course!
Thermometer


20lbs of sand is perfectly fine, it will just be a normal sized sand bed, nothing wrong with that. As AK said, the "live sand" sold at your LFS is not so alive... Whether or not you use that or dry aragonite sand, it will eventually turn into live sand as your tank matures.

You can grow macro algae in your main tank, some of it is actually quite gorgeous. Can't count on your fish not eating it though, apparently it's yummy tasting.


Was this tree coral's identity ever discovered?
Mushrooms are great starters, very hardy and spread and grow quite rapidly. Leather corals, zoas, xenia and various other soft corals are all great for beginners.

 

[GAB99]

don't forget the heater
hydrometer
Any various other test kits
The salt, of course!
Thermometer


20lbs of sand is perfectly fine, it will just be a normal sized sand bed, nothing wrong with that. As AK said, the "live sand" sold at your LFS is not so alive... Whether or not you use that or dry aragonite sand, it will eventually turn into live sand as your tank matures.

You can grow macro algae in your main tank, some of it is actually quite gorgeous. Can't count on your fish not eating it though, apparently it's yummy tasting.


Was this tree coral's identity ever discovered?
Mushrooms are great starters, very hardy and spread and grow quite rapidly. Leather corals, zoas, xenia and various other soft corals are all great for beginners.

d'oh! ill be sure to post a final list when everything is taken care of below

i think ill be buying premixed first so i wont have to worry that much, i already read up on how to mix your own and ill be getting ro water from the lfs.

where can i get macro algae? i changed the christmas tree to either polyps. they are both somewhat easy right? and what are macro algae's requirments? is there a way i can sorta fence it off if fish start to nibble?

and lastly, i give up with the stocking, you decide what to put in, but its gotta have 2 true perculas! try if you can to include some of the species i have said earlier, except for the clingfish. and i think in the begining nemo you got the wrasse thing mixed up as you said 6 wrasses instead of a 6-line wrasse lol


thank you all again, heres the list of materials we put up

heater set at 78F
hydrometer
test kits
salt
Thermometer
skimmer
20lbs of sand and rock
50/50 lighting
rubber gloves
power heads
animals

 

[GAB99]

well.. todays the day i start the journals...

if you put already cured live rock in the tank its cycled right?

andthen i need those last 4 questions and the stocking and thats it!