Your Fishless Cycle: The "do" And "do Not" List

[Gvilleguy]

Can you confirm the point quoted above? I had read somewhere that the replaced water, (when you do the 100% change), should be as close in temperature to the original removed water. If someone put in treated but cold tapwater, could this affect the A and N bacteria?

Sorry, Warehouse - I missed this question when I read the posts this morning. The safe thing to do would be to replace the tank water with water that matches the temp, or at least in the ball park. I never really thought about it, though.

 

[Gvilleguy]

I lucked into a 10 gallon tank setup (glass tank, hood, lights, and heater) for US $20 today. I don't really have a display spot for it, so I might find an out of the way corner for it and really do some controlled tests on fishless cycling. I would appreciate suggestions on which factors would be most interesting to explore. Some examples:

1. Does higher pH speed it up? How much?
2. Do a lot of bubbles in the water speed it up? How much?
3. Do water changes slow down the process?

I'd have to clean the tank and filter in the same manner between tests, and set it with identical media in the filter each time. Probably would run it without substrate to keep that from influencing tests.

 

[Kesaph]

I was wondering why when drawing near the end of cycling it is only recommended to dose the ammonia on the 24 hr mark and not the 12 hr?

If we are trying to prove the bacterias ability to process 4ppm of Ammonia and the resulting Nitrites in a short amount of time is there any benefit in leaving the tank essentially inactive for the next 12 hours?

 

[Aqua Tom]

I lucked into a 10 gallon tank setup (glass tank, hood, lights, and heater) for US $20 today. I don't really have a display spot for it, so I might find an out of the way corner for it and really do some controlled tests on fishless cycling. I would appreciate suggestions on which factors would be most interesting to explore. Some examples:

1. Does higher pH speed it up? How much?
2. Do a lot of bubbles in the water speed it up? How much?
3. Do water changes slow down the process?

I'd have to clean the tank and filter in the same manner between tests, and set it with identical media in the filter each time. Probably would run it without substrate to keep that from influencing tests.

Do live plants in the tank realy make a difference?


Tom

 

[Warehouse]

I would like to know if filling the filter with just the ceramic media, (which is supposed to be the best thing for bacteria to grow on), makes a difference?

I'd also like to know why this isn't pinned yet ?

 

[Paul70]

I think that just ceramic media may not be the best. certainly from a bacteria colonisation point of view it would be but I still feel you may need some other type of media (eg sponge, wool) to filter out any particles that may be in the water.

someone else may know better however as I am new to this game but it makes sense to me.

I also have a question regarding the do and do-not list.

In the tweak section it says that once you have a nitrite spike and ammonia is processing 'fairly quickly' to reduce ammonia to around 2-3ppm.

what do we class as fairly quickly? I have nitrites at 5.0ppm and my 4.0ppm ammonia is being processed to 0.25 in 24hrs.
should I now reduce my ammonia to 2-3ppm or stick with 4ppm for a little longer?

 

[waterdrop]

I was wondering why when drawing near the end of cycling it is only recommended to dose the ammonia on the 24 hr mark and not the 12 hr?

If we are trying to prove the bacterias ability to process 4ppm of Ammonia and the resulting Nitrites in a short amount of time is there any benefit in leaving the tank essentially inactive for the next 12 hours?

Yes, allowing the colonies to sit at zero for a while is called pulsing and is used in the WWTP world (waste water treatment plants, one of the other sources of scientific literature.) There are a couple of other reasons for this. The main reason is that you are dealing with a set of numbers that are going up and down on a graph and you'd like to remove the confustion of your own "injection" points as much as possible so that the picture is more about the colonies (you hope,) so making the main thing you do to the tank as regular as possible helps this. The third reason is so that we are not building up as much nitrate (since both nitrate and nitrite themselves can being to inhibit growth as they grow in concentration in the water environment the bacteria are seeing. You'll note this is the same as the tweek we do to drop dosing to 2-3ppm during the nitrite spike stage.)

~~waterdrop~~

 

[Skins]

I would like to know if filling the filter with just the ceramic media, (which is supposed to be the best thing for bacteria to grow on), makes a difference?

I'd also like to know why this isn't pinned yet ?

Yes there is no reason why you can't use just bio media but mechanical media will also be required to remove any debri. Both bio and mechanical are the best forms of media for the bacterias(A&N Bacs)to colonise on.

Keith.

 

[Gvilleguy]

I had the same thoughts regarding media - I believe that a combined media mix is better for removing debris (so sponges, pre filters, and pellets).

I was hoping for a recommendation regarding at which point we should tell people to reduce the ammonia dose during the nitrite phase. I am still not clear on that.

 

[Skins]

I had the same thoughts regarding media - I believe that a combined media mix is better for removing debris (so sponges, pre filters, and pellets).

I was hoping for a recommendation regarding at which point we should tell people to reduce the ammonia dose during the nitrite phase. I am still not clear on that.

I agree with you GV, there is currently a member who reduced his h/h ammonia dose during the nitrIte spike stage and now his cycle has stalled.

Keith.

 

[Warehouse]

I had the same thoughts regarding media - I believe that a combined media mix is better for removing debris (so sponges, pre filters, and pellets).

I was hoping for a recommendation regarding at which point we should tell people to reduce the ammonia dose during the nitrite phase. I am still not clear on that.

I agree with you GV, there is currently a member who reduced his h/h ammonia dose during the nitrIte spike stage and now his cycle has stalled.

Keith.

A very valid point. I'm aproaching the point where my own Nitrite drop should be imminent, but I have no intention of dropping the ammonia dosage, (due to the same things I've read here recently). I'll let you know what happens.

 

[Gvilleguy]

And it could be that my approach on this guide is too simplistic and cookie cutter. Since each cycle can be different and might require different adjustments, perhaps reducing the ammonia dose should not be recommended at all except as needed for individual cycles. I'll wait and see what more senior members say. My main goal was to reduce some of the common questions by having a checklist, and it does not have to address all considerations.

 

[Skins]

And it could be that my approach on this guide is too simplistic and cookie cutter. Since each cycle can be different and might require different adjustments, perhaps reducing the ammonia dose should not be recommended at all except as needed for individual cycles. I'll wait and see what more senior members say. My main goal was to reduce some of the common questions by having a checklist, and it does not have to address all considerations.

I think if the member cycling knows they have poor buffering capabilities(gh/kH)then they should be advised to lower the h/h ammonia dosage during the nitrite spike stage to help prevent a pH crash.

Keith.

 

[waterdrop]

By far the factor that stalls fishless cycles is quick pH drop. It's not necessarily the absolute numerical pH level but the negative delta. I think by comparison, the ammonia concentration, regardless of whether it's anywhere from near zero to somewhere less than 8ppm is a pretty minor factor. I think there have been enough successful cases of using the 2 to 3ppm dosing during the nitrite spike phase that this tweek does not seem to cause harm, however it's probably unclear whether the cases where it's seemed to speed things up a bit may not be numerous enough to know whether it improves things much over a straight 5ppm dosing.

WD

 

[Gvilleguy]

And I suppose reducing the ammonia dosing is something could attempt to test during my cycling tests on my new tank...