Why?

[BoSelecta]

I enjoy looking after the plants in my tank as much (maybe a little more) than the fish, it so rewarding to be able to grow a natural environment for the fish.
Far more rewarding than a few bits of rock and wood, athough I have seen many amazing looking tanks using just rock and wood.

This is what my tank looked like about three weeks ago, its now much denser and in need of a good prune which it will get next water change (thursday).

I would take a more current pic but the batterys flat on the camera )

 

[Lynz781]

That is SOME tank

 

[BoSelecta]

That is SOME tank

Thank you I added a more recent pic as well, but compared to some of the tanks in the members thread its a gold fish bowl

And that really is my point ... Just look at the tanks in that thread, I look at those pics and it makes me try harder and in return get more enjoyment from my tank.

Girly plants indeed!

http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=111385

 

[simonbrown403]

i have just started a thread in the plant forum to find out the attraction is with girly plants

im not scared of a debate thats what forums are for

Now I understand the motivation behind this thread.

T1KARMANN - So you like a debate?


I understand you keep fish that are unsuitable (large oddballs if you're video is anything to go by) for heavily planted tanks, but I'm sure you understand that plants do have their purpose for many in this wonderful hobby, maybe not for you personally and that is fine, but please don't use inappropiate stereotyping ("girly plants") in such a manner again on here - it is bordering on the offensive.

I've kept assorts of fish and have tried my hand at plants on more than one occasions, I've only recently gone in to the subject in any depth.
Keeping a planted tank is considered the fresh water equivalent of a reef, due to the complex balance of micro and macro nutrients needed for healthy growth.
Simply throwing a few plants in a tank with some fish in a tank and expecting nature to take its course wont work, because soon its going to run out of one of the many nutrients needed, which meand the delicate balance has been lost and you have a tank full of algue which most of us can grow without problems.

I can honestly say i have learnt far more since i started researching and keeping planted tanks then i have since i started keeping fish
To sucseed with planted tanks you need a reasonable understanding of chemistry and of how aquatic plants grow.

EDIT~ Just to add to that people mock what they dont understand, try it out for yourself might be suprised to find out how little you actually know.

 

[T1KARMANN]

Right yes i do like debates thats whats forums are for

i started the thread to find out the different reasons people keep planteded tank
as i know people who keep planted tanks without any fish but surly then it then becomes a tank not a fish tank

i also agree that if that is what the fish like its fairly important but i see people keeping bare bottom tanks with dicus how can you keep a planted tank with a bare bottom

if you guys were keeping your nice planted tank and a type of fish you were keeping in the tank started to eat the plants would you remove that fish

 

[BoSelecta]

if you guys were keeping your nice planted tank and a type of fish you were keeping in the tank started to eat the plants would you remove that fish

Yeah


But I also provide for my fishes food requirements so that does not happen, if a fish (say a tinfoil barb) was put in my tank and was destroying the plants I would remove it, no question.

 

[T1KARMANN]

if you guys were keeping your nice planted tank and a type of fish you were keeping in the tank started to eat the plants would you remove that fish

Yeah


But I also provide for my fishes food requirements so that does not happen, if a fish (say a tinfoil barb) was put in my tank and was destroying the plants I would remove it, no question.

so what you are saying is the plants are more important than the fish so its not realy a fish tank you are keeping its a water garden

 

[simonbrown403]

I think you contradict your self a little sometimes.

The debate you started on discus and bare bottom tanks you said it was cruel to keep them in a bare bottom tank as needed a substrate because they had evolved to rummage and feed in it.
I agree my corys are a lot happier since i moved them to my planted tank, and my clown loach seam happier since i put a sand substrate om the tank.

If this is so you would agree on the importance trying to mimic if not recreate there naturals environment.

Arowans as you already know are surface feeders, you can tell by looking at there up turned mouth.
They also have a typical predator body shape long and thin allowing the to cut through water easily, caudal, dorsal and anal fins are all located to the rear, for quick acceleration.
In there natural environment they use this power to jump out of the water to grab insect etc off trees and vegetation, they would also use these root systems and fallen branches to hide amongst if threatened.
So to recreate or mimic there natural environment your would need something along these lines.

Serverans and discus come from the same environment, a substrate would be more natural but not a necessity, as they don't actually root in the substrate, instead they fan the surface in search of food which they can do equally as well on any type of surface.
There body have evolved to weave in and out of dense root system to look for food, the stress bars on there flanks are part of there natural camouflage which helps them blend in with vertical root systems and vegitation.
So really you would need bog wood or roots of some kind to to mimic or recreate there natural environment.

During the rainy seasons they migrate into the flood planes to breed, some even get trapped in inland pools and lakes, where plants play a huge part of there environment.

I think your rays in your tank are the only ones you truly catered for as they would be quite at home in open sandy bottom areas where they would forage for food and burrow in the sand if thretened.

In the end as i said before, as long as your fishes needs are met whats the problem, my tank may be bare bottom and unnatural looking, but it still has the elements in it that they require to feel safe (ie bogwood to hide behind and shelter under, plants).

If it was just about the fish and not our enjoyment as well, we would leave them in there natural environment, or at the very least recreate there environment as closely as possible, in which case plants would not be considered "GIRLY", thay would be considered as part of there natural environment along with wood and rocks.

 

[Jen]

if you guys were keeping your nice planted tank and a type of fish you were keeping in the tank started to eat the plants would you remove that fish

Yes. I would take the fish out. Since going planted, I research every fish I think of adding. If someone told me that they had that fish and it ripped up all their plants, I wouldn't get it.

I wouldnt say that my plants are more important than my fish, but on the other side of it, I have spend far to much time, energy and money on getting my plants looking good to have one fish come in and rip them all up. If there was a fish that I desperately wanted, but couldnt keep with my plants, that's when I would set up another tank.

The same argument could be said for if you had a tank of one species of fish, then you added a different fish to them. If that 1 new fish was bullying your old fish, would you remove the whole school of peaceful fish, or the one bad seed? It's a matter of looking at what you want in your tank, beit a lush garden or a specific fish, and working all your choices around that.

 

[Lexie3787]

I put plants in my tanks because I am a girl and thats what plants are for. Girly fish tanks. =D

 

[T1KARMANN]

yes you are right an arowana would jump out of the water in the wild to grab food but they also have barbel to sence when insects and other food fall into the water

so its just a case of trying to make all the fish that you keep in a com as happy as you can

rays need open space as anything you put in with them they will move and throw around buy keeping the tank open and bare with only sand or gravel you get much better water movment their for the tank stays cleane with no dead spots have you not moved a bit of bogwood and seen how much crap is under it

look at the end of the day none of us keep fish or plants we keep WATER

 

[Discomafia]

look at the end of the day none of us keep fish or plants we keep WATER

Ditto. If you take care of your water, it'll take care of your fish and plants for you.

 

[George Farmer]

so what you are saying is the plants are more important than the fish so its not realy a fish tank you are keeping its a water garden

I think I can speak for the majority of planted tank hobbyists here.

Both fish and plants are important to us. They are almost symbiotic - the fish produce waste (nitrogen compounds, phosphates etc.) and the plants use them up. The same goes for CO2 and O2, the plants use up CO2 and produce O2, the fish use up O2 and produce CO2.

Look after the plants, create an ideal environment for them to grow and the fish will in turn be happy. Healthy plants = healthy fish. That's on a scientific level.

On the artistic level there's the visual harmony of seeing fish and plants co-existing happily together. Many of us choose our fish to compliment our plants and vice-versa.

You are right when you say we are not keeping a fish tank necessarily. You obviously keep fish tanks, we keep planted tanks with fish. As long as the fish are being cared for in the correct manner then there's no issue.

As you state we are waterkeepers, not fishkeepers. Look after the water and the fish keep themselves.

 

[Discomafia]

For me, it's all about providing my fish with the most realistic home. There's no such thing as plastic plants, red or blue gravel, or places where is no substrate, in nature. Also, fish notice the difference in live plants, and they use it more for shelter, breeding, and what not.

Plants are a vital part of most aquatic ecosystems, so having them in my tanks is only natural. The fact that plants help with water chemistry and reducing nitrates and alleopathy (sp?) and all that is irrelevant to me. As long as they look good, and I think it'll fit in with my aquascape, I'm sold.

If I got an agressive cichlid, I'd still plant my tanks, but not so densely, so as to recreate the fish's natural habitat. After all, that is what our job as fishkeepers is, to provide the best home/surrounding we can for the animals in our care.

Amano does it nicely, because his tanks all look like a cross section of a certain biotope, as if he took a photo of 1 square metre in a lake or stream ( he probably did ) , then recreates that in his tank. Check out some of his pics T1KARMANN, then see if you think plants are for girls...

Cheers,

 

[T1KARMANN]

most tank keeps spend most of their time taking care of the water so you should be able to see my point fish or plants its the water we spend most of out time getting right