Why?

[Waterloo Kid]

so fish are girly too then?

 

[Discomafia]

I think for the serious aquatic gardeners, they don't take care of their water, they fine tune it so they can get the exact dose of micro and macro nutrients to suit their tank and it's specs (light, CO2....) In that sense, it is more challenging. That may or may not necessarily be good....

 

[soritan]

I use live plants to help maintain stable water parmeters for my fish. My tanks are ugly as the underside of a shoe... but I'm working on that.

I find it rather funny you'd call having a planted tank 'girly'... after reading up on many forums on planted tanks, casual observation had lead me to believe that most planted tanks were kept by men.

*shrug*

Your initial post doesn't seem to ask for a debate, you insult and then demand justification for effeminate behavior.

Just thought I'd point that out.

 

[jimbooo]

er i really cant be bothered to justify why i keep "girly" tanks but for the record

1 - i think a bare tank with monster fish is pleasing to the eye when you are sitting 4 inches in front of the glass but take a step back and look at it across the living room and you get a differnt picture. to the non fish lover (ie most of the visitors to my home) they look about as attractive as a rabbit hutch/hampster cage etc.. basically unless you appreciate the fish inside it, it just looks like a childhood hobby gone mad.

a planted tank however is a piece of living furniture and is greeted by WoW's and Gasps whenever anyone new sees it, fish lover or not.

2 - i managed to learn how to keep water rather early on and once the tank is set up your works done (apart from maintenance) i like my hobby to be a little more challenging than that hence why i choose to cause myself all kinds of problems (due to high lighting, nutrient loads etc..) which need to be overcome by learning some rather complicated scientific information. how many employees in a fish store can tell you in detail about the plants they stock? maybe one or two have a basic knowledge but i have yet to learn anything from a LFS employee. fish however they all know about to varying extents, some to expert level.

i like to think i have a specialist knowledge and thrive on helping others achieve the same level of beauty from their tanks.

if that seems girly to you then so be it, tell your girlfriend to pm me if she wants a planted tank and i'll help her out all day long.

after you've witnessed the level of attention these things need i think you'll rephrase your original question.


see my girly tanks in my sig video if you like. i do have some plecs in there, theyre not all tiddlers.

 

[T1KARMANN]

next point most fish keepers get great pleasure in growing their fish to adult size and get very upset if one of their fish dies do planted tank keepers get so upset when one of your plants die

and are planted tank just for gardeners who dont like going out in the cold

 

[George Farmer]

next point most fish keepers get great pleasure in growing their fish to adult size and get very upset if one of their fish dies do planted tank keepers get so upset when one of your plants die

and are planted tank just for gardeners who dont like going out in the cold

You are treading a very fine line between relevant debate and sheer micky-taking.

Be warned.

 

[jimbooo]

1 - yes i got massivly peed of with myself when i left one of my java ferns out of water for 10 mins. it dries up and i almost lost it. 2 months later it's just about back to normal. i've been growing it for 18 months.
on top of that i do also get upset when i loose a fish. my angel and gibbiceps plecs are as important to me as anything else in there.

2 - kind of but i dont have a garden. i also am not to keen on the lack of control with regular outdoor gardening. you cant control the lighting, heat, animal activity co2 level etc at all. something that aquatic gardening is all centered around.

we get to control absolutley EVERYTHING which is kind of an additional perk.
i like playing god

okay lets get to the point shall we T1KARMANN have you looked at my video? take a look and post back your honest opinion. if you walked into my flat what would your first words be.

be honest (if a little tactfull please) i dont mind either way, i am interested in your opinion.

 

[T1KARMANN]

next point most fish keepers get great pleasure in growing their fish to adult size and get very upset if one of their fish dies do planted tank keepers get so upset when one of your plants die

and are planted tank just for gardeners who dont like going out in the cold

You are treading a very fine line between relevant debate and sheer micky-taking.

Be warned.

i dont think i am treading a thin line im just trying to find out the appeal of a planted tank as its not really fish keeping its garderning but indoors but you play god and add the light temp and what ever else the plants need to thrive

people can call what i keep girly but i wouldnt lose any sleep over it i would just ask why they thought its girly

i just feel their is not much that goes on in a tank set up just for plants
the main goal for most fishkeepers is to get their fish breeding what is the main goal for a planted tank keeper

 

[George Farmer]

we get to control absolutely EVERYTHING

At last - here does lie an interesting debate.

In the aquarium context do we control everything, or do our human inputs only provide influence upon the forces of nature?

How does one distinguish between influence and control, or are they the same thing just at varying degrees?

 

[T1KARMANN]

buy controling everything you must have a goal at the end of your hard work

i feed my rays and mother them to adult hood with the sole perpers of breeding them if and when my rays spit out pups i can sit back and say yes i have done what i started out to do

what is the light at the end of the tunnel for a planted tank

 

[George Farmer]

....... you must have a goal at the end of your hard work

what is the light at the end of the tunnel for a planted tank

To be content with what you have acheived. Simple as that. No baby fish necessary .

To answer your earlier post T1KARMANN -

<I'm just trying to find out the appeal of a planted tank>

I think that's been answered by now. If not then take a look here.

<it's not really fishkeeping, it's gardening but indoors...>

It's both.

<I would just ask why they though it's girly>

Why do YOU think planted tanks are girly?

<there is not much that goes on in a tank set up just for plants>

We set up the tanks for fish AND plants. There is a lot more that goes on in a planted tank than in a fish-only tank, I can promise you that. Yes, it may be on a smaller scale but it's fascinating nonetheless i.e. the production of pure oxygen bubbles from leaves (pearling).

<the main goal for most fishkeepers is to breed their fish>

Is it? I assumed the majority's main goal was to provide the healthiest possible environment for their fish. If this results in breeding then great, I don't see it as our primary objective though.

i dont think i am treading a thin line.........

Then I suggest you need to re-think your tact.

 

[piper]

i just think a planted tank may look nice but its for girls

Your such a fool.
Personally I believe that any one who decides to purposely antagonize people to provoke an argument is a bit of a “girl”.
Even replying in this tread is probably fulfilling some obscure desire of yours.

 

[RedShark]

we get to control absolutely EVERYTHING

At last - here does lie an interesting debate.

In the aquarium context do we control everything, or do our human inputs only provide influence upon the forces of nature?

How does one distinguish between influence and control, or are they the same thing just at varying degrees?

Nice to see you with a shovel George, you have made this post worth reading for me. If in fact we go on debating these levels, or degrees if you will, of human influence upon nature.

buy controling everything you must have a goal at the end of your hard work

i feed my rays and mother them to adult hood with the sole perpers of breeding them if and when my rays spit out pups i can sit back and say yes i have done what i started out to do

what is the light at the end of the tunnel for a planted tank

Not to be rude or anything dude but, duh. No offense, but keeping planted aquariums provide the fish with the closest thing to nature while captive. I mean, when you go to the zoo all the animals you see are kept in habitats that immitate their natural environment right? Calling the planted aquarium something for girls didn't immediately get a rise out of me, b/c usually i pay no mind to nincompoopery of that sort. If anything im trying to end this dry spell of useless, no shallow questioning.
So, The goal then is for the fish to be as comfortable as possible. Maintaining a balance between the fish, water, lighting, Co2 and plants is key, and quite a challenge. Since your not a girly man what with your arowwana which is, i assume is a manly fish, you ought to let your nuts hang and throw that self-conscious manly pose out of the window and see if you are up to challenge of maintaing a planted aquarium.
IMO, planted aquariums satisfies the soul. Also for my niece and nephew, it provides them with a sense of wonder.

 

[jimbooo]

okay am i invisible? hello T1KARMANN care to reply to my post?

i am actually quite enjoying this. although tikermann is rather untactful in his wording there are probably quite a few people sitting on the other parts of the forum who share his views. ie plants are for girls. by the way my flat does not have flowery wall paper and an ambient smell of roses. the floor is littered with ps2 games, dirty socks and the usual blokey stuff. i'm not what you'd call a feminine type of guy at all.

hey i even have a scab on my knee.

if you steer away from antagonising people this debate may actually prove interesting reading to others.

anyway tikermann care to reply to my post above?

 

[Waterloo Kid]

what is the light at the end of the tunnel for a planted tank

Now THAT'S a decent question!

Personally I'd like to see my plants growing well with little or no algae present. Add into that a fish population which is healthy and possibly even breeding (say hello to three new dwarf cichlids who have grown up under a community aquarium situation primarily due to their mother's attentions and cover provided by the plants). My tank is not a fish system or a plant system. It's an ecosystem. It's obviously not a complete ecosystem but it has closed loop cycles within it.
The human race has learnt so much from nature and has so much more to learn. Time and time again we find ways of mimicking nature to our advantage. The principle of flight, electricity, farming etc. We harness nature for our needs. We sometimes loose sight of the fact that nature is just so much more powerful than we are. As an animal the human species is rather pathetic.
Anyway, getting back to the thread. have you ever kept a marine tank? If so, and I'm only guessing here, looking at your current setup with your rays I'd guess you would have used all sorts of nitrate reactors and other gadgets to keep your water clean. Nature has, as is usually the case, a far more efficient answer. Live rock. It can't (under normal conditions) break down, it needs no power of its own and does a better job than any man made gadget. In the freshwater world we do not have this live rock to use. What we do have is plants. And that takes me full circle to your post in the other forum.
You may think that nothing much happens in a planted tank but by saying that you simply expose your ignorance of the art and science of plant keeping. I would never be arrogant enough to insult your methods. If that's what you want to do then fine. After all, that's what the equipment has been designed to do. People use it because it's a good way of doing things.
And calling plants girly? I suppose cooking is girly too? Buy your girlfriend/wife an iron for Christmas did you? Come on. Ideas like that went out with the Sweeny. I don't know where you are from but if it's the UK then you could do with watching a program on BBC1 called Life on Mars. It's very suprising just how much views have changed in 33 years!

Enjoy your rays and I hope the nitrate reactor works for you. I'll stick to plants.

WK