Why is overcrowding stressful?

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Tttay89

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Apart from the obvious water quality and oxygen level when having a lot of fish, is the actual overcrowding in itself stressful? Meaning things like swim room. Ie are those 200 guppys in the 40cm tank in fish shops severely stressed even if the water quality and ability to breath is OK. Also meaning are fish likely to bring diseases if kept in tanks of an extreme amount in such a small space?
 
Because fish shop dont have enough room and they sell them every single day, they dont keep them forever. Another reason that cause them stress is like you trap in a toilet with a lot of people.
 
Apart from the obvious water quality and oxygen level when having a lot of fish, is the actual overcrowding in itself stressful? Meaning things like swim room. Ie are those 200 guppys in the 40cm tank in fish shops severely stressed even if the water quality and ability to breath is OK. Also meaning are fish likely to bring diseases if kept in tanks of an extreme amount in such a small space?

There are two aspects to overcrowding. The usually more obvious one is physical space, and the second (which is frequently misunderstood) is water quality. Though each has distinct impacts, they also have a related combined impact. And yes, all of this is highly stressful to fish.

If fish are crowded, the water quality is never "good" because it just cannot be good under such conditions. We cannot eveen begin to test for much of this; ammonia, nitrite and nitrate may be zero, but that is only one very small aspect of water quality. Oxygen and CO2 is significant but again not thee major issue. All fish communicate through chemical signals; phermones are read by others in the species, and allomones are read by other species. Fish continually release these chemicals, which is one major reason for significant water changes because it is the only way to remove them. Fish can be under serious aggressive threat just from these chemicals even without actual physical aggression. Initially we do not see external evidence, but at some point it will become so severe it will be evident, and by then it is usually too late for the fish. The physiological and psychological damage caused by severe stress is irreversible.

Fish carry many diseases, naturally. They develop ways to handle them, naturally. But stress at any level begins weaking the fish, especially their immune system--this is true of all animals, including humans, which is why reducing stress is a major component of fighting off most diseases. This causes further stress, and it just multiplies until the fish can no longer cope and it dies. The immediate cause may be "x" or "y" disease, but the actual underlying cause of the death was stress. Stress causes 95% of all aquarium fish disease.

Each species of fish "expects" a very specific environment, and this is part of the fish's DNA. The more the conditions we provide differ from those in the wild habitat of the fish species, the more likely thee fishes are to be stressed and susceptible to disease.

Fish in store tannks are in every case (with a very few exceptions) being forced to exist in highly unsatisfactory conditions in terms of what they "expect." But most fish can manage to tolerate the bad for a limited period, and it usually has no lasting effect. But this is not always the case. Normal/general store tank conditions should never be regarded as adequate because they never are.
 
I'm just not sure. On the surface one would think that crowding is by it's very nature stressful. Then again, I've seen videos of many breeder operations in vaults, tubs, tanks, and ponds with LOTs of fish. And then there's fish in the ocean that school in the thousands and they seem quite fine.
I think it largely comes down to water quality and high water quality can be difficult to maintain in the confines of an aquarium with too many fish.
I currently have a couple of heavily stocked tanks (breeding Swordtails) that I have to do water changes nearly back to back.
 
Large schools of fish in the ocean are not confined by glass walls. Think of yourself in an elevator, a few people is alright but when the elevator gets packed how do you feel? or on the subway when it is standing room only. Hard to relax under those circumstances and many people feel stressed. :/
 
Fish in store tannks are in every case (with a very few exceptions) being forced to exist in highly unsatisfactory conditions in terms of what they "expect." But most fish can manage to tolerate the bad for a limited period

I know, I picked up some Rummy noses for my daughters tank today
Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate - 120
Ph 8.8
Gh - 21dgh
!!!
 
Large schools of fish in the ocean are not confined by glass walls. Think of yourself in an elevator, a few people is alright but when the elevator gets packed how do you feel? or on the subway when it is standing room only. Hard to relax under those circumstances and many people feel stressed. :/
But fish don't think like we do and generally are more relaxed in greater numbers. But my point was that there's likely more stress and potential health issues associated with poor water quality than fish proximity to each other....as would be the case without overcrowding.
 
But fish don't think like we do and generally are more relaxed in greater numbers. But my point was that there's likely more stress and potential health issues associated with poor water quality than fish proximity to each other....as would be the case without overcrowding.
I agree with you that poor water quality is a major factor. I just think overcrowding is also a factor and adds to the problem.
 
I agree with you that poor water quality is a major factor. I just think overcrowding is also a factor and adds to the problem.
Well, more fish = more food = more waste and in the confined space in most aquariums, it's not long before water gets foul. BUT close quarters often produces stressful aggression.
 

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