White Spot/bump Above Eye

[Kaidonni]

I've noticed a white tip on the lower part of the caudal fin, and possibly edged with faint black. I will observe this just in case it's entirely normal colouration I've never noticed before. However, my mind is thinking fin rot...if that's the case, I'm not sure what I can do for the little guy. Do I treat the whole tank and risk potential side-effects from medicine, or opt for euthanasia given that it means he has more than one issue going on (and therefore any treatment may be insufficient to solve the primary infection)?
 
EDIT 2: It's visible in that video I filmed on 3rd May, so...dunno what to make of it now. Don't think that's fin rot any longer, or I don't think it as much. I'm still not going to entirely discount the possibility, but still... Heh, good job I checked the video.

 

[Kaidonni]

I eliminated the snails I could today, it felt rather cruel but I can't take the risk in case of parasites. I also conducted a ~50% change (25 litres, but as the tank isn't quite 50 litres due to the filter, heater, airstone and plants, I'd say it may have been 52-54%). I normally do 30-40%, but this should hopefully help out on the nitrates issue to some extent, and what the male Minnow needs is a clean environment. The one female looked a little paler tonight, and it only took me 10-15 minutes to add the new water (partly temperature matched - the first 10 litres and last 5 litres were as warm if not slightly warmer than the water I removed, the middle 10 litres was cooler). I don't think they have temperature shock, though - highly active, although I could be stressing them and causing further problems doing it so fast. I don't pH match, but if they had pH shock, I'd probably know about it. I do have some Minnow fry - so I am concerned about how my approaches to changing large amounts of water affect them, as they are likely to be far more sensitive to fluctuations - but if I don't make sure the adults are well, they won't have much luck.

Somebody online suggested the possibility of Lymphocystis, of which I am aware I wouldn't really be able to do anything. Also, I've had this Minnow for 2 1/2 years at least, and for most of that time, I did have the heater on, pushing the water temperature up to 25-26C. It's now in a more suitable range of 21C-23/24C, but I have considered the possibility that the earlier stint with the higher temperatures may have accelerated the ageing of the Minnows, and if that's the case, his immune system will naturally weaken and something will probably get him eventually - regardless of how clean I keep the tank. An article I read on Columnaris pointed out that older fish can catch it in otherwise well maintained aquariums (not that this is Columnaris, but it applies to just about anything lurking in the background in any aquarium).

 

[Kaidonni]

I noticed one of the female Minnows right at the surface now and then last night and this morning (not all of the time, but she was going up to sip and staying there like that for at least a little while). It seems the temperature is higher than usual (24C), and I did notice this evening the other Minnows popping for a quick sip (but not staying right at the surface for a while like the other Minnow). Hopefully there's nothing much to that, but I shall keep observing - and it may turn out that it's only the one Minnow who has any real trouble with taking in oxygen, while the others are just doing it while the temperature is raised, or just because.

I can't do much about the temperature since I don't even have the heater plugged in...
 
I've attached a photo posted on another forum by a user who thinks my Minnow has mouthrot. I can't say I see the resemblance between the condition of the Minnow in the photo and mine. Anyone else have an opinion on the similarity?

 

[Kaidonni]

As to the female Minnow...yeah, taking photos or video might not really work this time round. It's hard enough for me to see it...

I had a look this evening while the light was on, and noticed that, just behind her right gills, there was a bump/lump. It isn't like what the male Minnow has, no discolouration, it doesn't look external. She spent quite a bit of time at the top this morning while the light was off, but I didn't notice her doing that while the light was on when I checked her this evening (she was hiding amongst the plants). She was active yesterday evening when I fed the fish, and schooling with them - but the light was on. I thought she might have bloating, but she isn't pineconing; and if there is any bloating, it'd be downwards rather than outwards (possibly constipation or something else, but that doesn't quite explain the lump).

 

[Kaidonni]

That lump/bump on the female Minnow developed into a raised area headed with a white spot this morning, but by the time I got home from work, it had disappeared/burst. This didn't leave any unsightly wound, but there is a wisp of white stuff around where the spot was, possibly cottony, probably all that remains of the growth (it wasn't a fungus or cottony in the sense of Columnaris, I'm just using that word because it fits in this instance - it'd be some of whatever the white spot was). She's still spending a lot of time at the surface when the light goes off. I didn't feed tonight, I'm fasting them and feeding some pea tomorrow, especially in case I've noticed any bloating (not that I definitely have, I feed pea regularly anyway). Water change as usual on Sunday.

 

[Kaidonni]

It looks like there is still something there where the white spot was, but I have to look close and hard. It's more fleshy-coloured/grey, so it blends in well.

 

[Kaidonni]

One more thing - it looks like the white spot on the male Minnow has either grown or bulged out more. It did look slightly larger, if I'm not mistaken.

 

[Kaidonni]

I've conducted a 50% water change and a thorough gravel vacuum on Sunday, Monday and Tuesday (not quite as thorough with the gravel on Monday) in response to the cyst on the female Minnow, and it's bursting on Friday.

I've attached some photos, the quality isn't great. They show that the white spot/cyst has reformed on the female Minnow. It's more visible the closer she is to the front of the tank, but she didn't want to come to the front when I was taking these photos!

The male Minnow still has that spot above his eye, it appears to have grown a little, and it does have a translucent edge when I get a real close-up look at it. Not too sure about his mouth, it doesn’t look too good but no blatantly obvious signs of mouthrot such as a cottony-growth. His mouth is just whitish/pale/discoloured as best I can tell. If he has a tumour and a bacterial infection, it might just be age in his case. It’s definitely a separate issue to the female Minnow.

I’m considering the aquarium salts option – any particular type? Or just aquarium salt sold by any local fish shop? I've got some rock salt from the local fish shop. How should I proceed in dosing for White Cloud Mountain Minnows? Would 1g/litre work out okay? I was considering taking a litre out of the tank, dosing that litre with the salt and letting it dissolve, and then pouring that litre gradually back into the tank. At my tank's volume, I'd be looking at 47-48g.

 

[Kaidonni]

And for good measure, the male Minnow with the spot above his eye...

 

[Kaidonni]

I did feed a little bit of flake food tonight as I hadn't fed since last Wednesday. The female Minnow with the growth was slow to the punch, and didn't quite know what she was doing - the other Minnows out-competed her - but she did snatch a couple of flakes. Her body is a red-orange-golden colour (possibly normal, each of the Minnows seems to be a slightly different colour, and she does have an orange-golden sheen in videos I filmed back in March and April), and she does look slightly bloated. I'll consider feeding some pea either tomorrow night or Friday, but not much.

 

[attibones]

The spot does look larger. I'm not sure if you need marine or aquarium salt.

I don't know if it is a tumor or not. However, if you are experiencing mouth or fin rot, clean water is usually the cure.

Maybe you could try a broad-spectrum antibiotic? I don't usually think that's a good idea when you are unsure of what is going on, but if your female is beginning to show symptoms then it may be a good idea. This is a really perplexing problem, for sure.

 

[Kaidonni]

No clear signs of mouth rot or fin rot.
 
I live in the UK, so can't get hold of antibiotics. In any case, I'm also not willing to dose the main tank with antibiotics. The female Minnow's situation appears to be a separate issue to the male Minnow.

 

[Kaidonni]

Another five pics...

She does look fuller in the body from the front, so there may be slight bloating. I can't tell whether it's the remains of the cyst/tissue damage, or some other sort of growth. The pics obviously aren't stellar.

 

[Kaidonni]

Last trick up my sleeve with the female Minnow, a quick video I managed to film.

 

[Kaidonni]

I don't know if it's a cyst, or a growth of another sort, or even tissue/the angle of the scales where the original cyst grew. It almost looks like it's gone again, unlike in the video I put on Youtube. The other morning when the light was off, it looked like it had returned. I don't reckon I could go through 3x50% changes again, clearly I'm going to need to take another approach as it's a losing battle. The other Minnows so far don't show any similar symptoms *touch wood* I won't assume it's the cyst that returned, light can play tricks, but still...there's definitely something there, similar to the colour of her body, greyish-reddish. Possibly the damaged or healing tissue...
 
I also don't know if I'm noticing anything on her caudal fin. Possibly a tiny white dot. I don't know if it's large enough to be Ich or anything, I'll keep an eye on that for sure.
 
Another female Minnow was doing quite a frantic bit of flashing just now, I'll definitely observe her. I've had fish flash before and nothing come of it, but given the circumstances, I'll keep an eye out for repeat behaviour. I don't want to jump at everything, but I don't want to discount anything either.