Which eartheater would you put in a 450 gallon aquarium ?

[anewbie]

Which eartheater would you put in an aquarium that is 8 feet long and 4 feet wide; and what other fishes would you put with it ?

 

[Wills]

Which eartheater would you put in an aquarium that is 8 feet long and 4 feet wide; and what other fishes would you put with it ?

I would go for a Satanoperca Daemon tank with a really big group of about 10. I'd consider adding a group of Uaru with them as well. A big school of disk tetras like a Bleeding Heart - subtle colours but bright red dot, some Hemiodus Gracillis (I think thats the red striped one) and a large group of Flagtail Catfish, I'd also (if I was pushing the boat out) have an L095 because they are awesome

Wills

 

[anewbie]

Interesting - you would pick them over winemilleri, altifrons, and ... The one concern i have would be it seems like satanoperca really does best in blackwater environment while winemilleri are sometime found in areas closer to clear-water; uaru would be out - they eat too many plants.
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Oh well i'm going to have to digest this.

 

[GaryE]

I would also go with Satanoperca daemon, but in a 450, one pair. I like winemilleri, and might add 6. daemon get big, so I would count 150 gallons for the pair, since it's an 8 footer and they could swim. The 4 winemilleri would eat up another 200. I'd add a shoal of Hemiodus gracilis, and stop there.

Or six daemon and Hemiodus. That's a daydream possibility.

The whole Geophagine group is sensitive, clear or blackwater. S daemon looks its best with a tannin tint to the water, but as long as the water is soft, they are good. But even in a 450, six daemon alone would need some water changing. They would be so beautiful though. I think their beauty is best with calm, and along with water changing, that's a reason I wouldn't crowd the tank at all. That fish passes like an old fashioned ocean liner with its lights on, quietly and smoothly.

I bred two different Satanoperca in undoctored dechlorinated tap, once medium hard, once soft. I had more young grow up in softer water, but I also had more experience by then. They were about 15 years apart and different species (mapiritensis and I don't know for sure - pet shop misidentified).

 

[Wills]

I think 450 gallons is so hard for me to picture I get a bit carried away. I have to admit I've only kept Winemilleri long term, I did have a Daemon singularly for a while - really nice fish but was the only one in a store I saw and came away with it (don't judge me we've all done it haha!) Went to a member on here near Leeds if I remember correctly.

I understand the plant thing with Uaru, I have a really strong memory from when I was probably 5 or 6 of seeing what I now know were Uaru in a pet shop so always tug at my heart strings a bit, but probably wont ever get a chance to keep them. In a nice Aquarium Design Group style tank they could look great though.

Wills

 

[anewbie]

I think 450 gallons is so hard for me to picture I get a bit carried away. I have to admit I've only kept Winemilleri long term, I did have a Daemon singularly for a while - really nice fish but was the only one in a store I saw and came away with it (don't judge me we've all done it haha!) Went to a member on here near Leeds if I remember correctly.

I understand the plant thing with Uaru, I have a really strong memory from when I was probably 5 or 6 of seeing what I now know were Uaru in a pet shop so always tug at my heart strings a bit, but probably wont ever get a chance to keep them. In a nice Aquarium Design Group style tank they could look great though.

Wills

The gallons isn't so useful but the size is 8 feet long and 4 feet wide - so not super huge. The one on the other side of the room is 10 feet long and 4 feet wide but that is for the clownloaches and i guess i'll toss the festums in there so they aren't with the geo (per earlier posts); Sad thing is i really need a low current geo so i can put the festum in the geo aquarium since the loaches will go wild with a lot of current.

 

[GaryE]

I can't think of any low flow Geophagus, but it doesn't mean they don't adapt to quieter water. You'll get more aggressive behavior in a slow tank, and maybe need to stock less. In a slow tank, you won't get sediment over the sand as you would in nature. Well, if you can reach into that tank and keep it clean, you won't...

Some Apistogramma like slower water, and they are Geophagines. But somehow, I have yet to meet an aquarist who would use an eight footer for Apistos. !

I 'm guessing the festum is a festivus? And the earlier posts were another thread? I kept Mesonauta egregius with red head Geos, and had no problem except they outgrew the tank and had to be passed along to a friend. They dealt with the conditions very well - no problem I could see. What was the objection in the other thread?

If you have a laminar flow pump, you could upset a mesonauta, but like angels (often in underwater video with geos in the wild) they handle some flow easily. You can crank up the flow in an eight footer better than in a small tank, but you don't need a strong current for Geos. They like it, but it doesn't seem essential to their behaviour or well being (unless you can get the rapids ones, which are bad customers in slow water).

BTW - I'm one of those purists who says we shouldn't make fish adapt to us. So when I talk about a geo adjusting to slower water, it's because in my experience, it is not a problem for them as long as the sand on the bottom is clear for them to work it over, and the stocking is restrained.

 

[anewbie]

I can't think of any low flow Geophagus, but it doesn't mean they don't adapt to quieter water. You'll get more aggressive behavior in a slow tank, and maybe need to stock less. In a slow tank, you won't get sediment over the sand as you would in nature. Well, if you can reach into that tank and keep it clean, you won't...

Some Apistogramma like slower water, and they are Geophagines. But somehow, I have yet to meet an aquarist who would use an eight footer for Apistos. !

I 'm guessing the festum is a festivus? And the earlier posts were another thread? I kept Mesonauta egregius with red head Geos, and had no problem except they outgrew the tank and had to be passed along to a friend. They dealt with the conditions very well - no problem I could see. What was the objection in the other thread?

If you have a laminar flow pump, you could upset a mesonauta, but like angels (often in underwater video with geos in the wild) they handle some flow easily. You can crank up the flow in an eight footer better than in a small tank, but you don't need a strong current for Geos. They like it, but it doesn't seem essential to their behaviour or well being (unless you can get the rapids ones, which are bad customers in slow water).

BTW - I'm one of those purists who says we shouldn't make fish adapt to us. So when I talk about a geo adjusting to slower water, it's because in my experience, it is not a problem for them as long as the sand on the bottom is clear for them to work it over, and the stocking is restrained.

So flow is of course relative - the current flow is around 6 gph and i could easily up to it to 10 gph but when i think of raging river i think 30 or 50 gph.
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Yes the festums are Mesonauta (some species but sold as wc mirificus (peru)). When i talk about slow vs fast i'm really talking relative from videos and other information some geo are found in the middle or rapids like Retroculus lapidifer and some are closer to the banks and sandy areas like (I think) mirablis are found in relatively calm waters.
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There was a comment earlier in this thread that the angels and mesonauta prefer quiet areas and are less interested in fast flow - though truth be told my mesonauta are strong swimmers in the 120. Dang my loach is lying upside down playing dead again. Anyway - i'm reading a lot and watching videos less but i'm getting some much conflicting material it is difficult to get things right. Some say altrons and daemon are find in harder water (kh 3 tds 120) other say they will get hole in the head in anything less than blackwater - i'm pretty sure winemilleri and mirablis are more tolerable of clear or harder water in nature (up to 100 ppm) from my reading but i'm not sure if that is accurate.
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One thing about placement of fishes is given the tank size it will be very difficult to remove them. My mesonauta (unlike the angles that are with them) are very skittish and once they go into an aquarium they will be impossible to remove. I'm moving them next week so i need to decide very soon if they go with the geo or clown loaches

 

[GaryE]

I have never fished in Amazonia, but I have kept a lot of Geos, and watched a lot of underwater video from a good friend who goes regularly.

First, Retroculus have a reduced swim bladder to be rapids fish. I kept them with a 20 times turnover but gave them to a friend (I was just growing them out) who had a large tank that could have a current in it.

Hole in the head is an issue. It's why I would understock, according to many. It takes a lot of water changing to control. In any water, from medium hard down, water changing is the only way to fight it. There's a reason why I have no Geos now...

In a 120 with 5 Geos, I had to do 50% twice a week. That's a lot of water. Those fish in a 250 would have fallen to once a week, but I don't have the space. In a tank the size of yours, big water changes would be a lot of work.

This is a brilliant video.

 

[anewbie]

In a 120 with 5 Geos, I had to do 50% twice a week. That's a lot of water. Those fish in a 250 would have fallen to once a week, but I don't have the space. In a tank the size of yours, big water changes would be a lot of work.

Yep would be a *lot* of work and that is why i am using a drip system....

 

[anewbie]

I have never fished in Amazonia, but I have kept a lot of Geos, and watched a lot of underwater video from a good friend who goes regularly.

First, Retroculus have a reduced swim bladder to be rapids fish. I kept them with a 20 times turnover but gave them to a friend (I was just growing them out) who had a large tank that could have a current in it.

Hole in the head is an issue. It's why I would understock, according to many. It takes a lot of water changing to control. In any water, from medium hard down, water changing is the only way to fight it. There's a reason why I have no Geos now...

In a 120 with 5 Geos, I had to do 50% twice a week. That's a lot of water. Those fish in a 250 would have fallen to once a week, but I don't have the space. In a tank the size of yours, big water changes would be a lot of work.

This is a brilliant video.

Scapeing a large tank like what is in this video would be an interesting task. It won't happen with my initial setup but i might be able to add spider driftwood over time so maybe after a few years it will get more branchy. Won't be able to change the substrate from sand to mud but if i can find some non-leaching leaves it could form mud over time - maybe oak leaves.

 

[GaryE]

The best leaves I've used, and I've used them for tannins mainly, are oak. You just have to watch as they build and powder out that they don't harbour velvet parasites (Oodinium spp). I see a real connection between velvet outbreaks and botanicals past the point I should have pulled them out. I don't have problems now, today (touch driftwood but it's a recurring thing over several years.

I've never had velvet, the scourge of very softwater, visibly hit a Cichlid - it gets my killies (Oddly, I have never had Ich hit my killies, in over 30 years). But I figure it persists in some systems as a nuisance and doesn't take off til conditions are right for it (and wrong for us). It always has hit leaf litter tanks only here.

For branches, I've always used male or oak with the bark stripped and a bit of summertime soaking time outside.