What's the best combination?

[777james777]

I want to have a variety of tropical fish in my tank once cycled, its 160 litres 100x40x40cm so there is plenty of room.
So far I have decided on the following:

- 1 betta (I believe they prefer to be alone)
- 6-10 neon tetra (they prefer to be in a group)
- Guppies (i dont know much about them but i like the look of them)
- Cardinal (not sure how many of these)
- I have forgot the name of this one, but it sucks on the side of the tank
- I really wanted one angel fish but I have been told my tank isn't tall enough as they grow

Is there ANY advice people can give me, perhaps experiences they have had. Not just with the above fish but any,

EG - Any fish not to have with others, ones that are difficult to look after, peaceful fish, any advice welcome.

 

[seangee]

Tetras require soft water and guppies hard water. Both cannot thrive in the same tank. Check with your water supplier what the hardness is. Post the numbers and units of measurement and someone will advise.
I would choose cardinal or neon tetras not both and go for a bigger group - say 20-30. My own preference between these is cardinals, but they do generally require warmer water than neons. A good site for researching fish requirements and compatibility is seriouslyfish.com
Personally I would not have a betta in a community tank. If you do have soft water corydoras go well with tetras, and this is where you need to do some research as most corydoras require cooler water than cardinals - but you can find an overlap.
I assume the fish you forgot the name of is a bristlenose plec. Make sure you get a bristlenose and not a common plec as these will quite quickly grow too large for your tank.

 

[Wills]

From your other thread I think you have very soft water is that right? I'll base my suggestions on that I agree with Sean on not putting a Betta in a tank like this, much better on their own in a 5-10 gallon tank.

The fish you've listed are great but are often so common they are a bit overbred so make sure you get good quality from a good store - we've spoken before about how close you are to Pier Aquatics for example

If I had this tank in a softwater area and access to a place like Pier I'd be looking at a school of 20-25 small slim bodied tetras, these could be the Neons or Cardinals but you could also check out Green Neon which stay a bit smaller but just as colourful and also less over bred, Black Neons are interesting or the smaller ones like Ember Tetras or a few others. Gold and Platinum Tetras are pretty spectacular too.

I'd then have in there some kind of dwarf cichlid, a lone male Bolivian Ram could do well in here but if you wanted a group or trio some kind of Apistogramma could be good Hongsloi, Macmasteri, Cacatuoides or Panduro are all spectacular fish. A group of Cupid Cichlids would be great or group of Laetacara or Nannacara, Keyhole Cichlids are all good options here. For me having a cichlid in a tank is a must, but that is personal preference, they are really intelligent animals and you get a real relationship with them that few other species/families offer.

Some catfish for the bottom would be good too, some kind of Cory - loads of options but some of my favourites that I see around are the Slates and Smudge spots. Could also go for some wood cats like Oil Catfish - though they do hide a lot. The fish you mentioned that sticks to the glass is probably a pleco - just be careful with which you choose as some get huge as said above Bristlenoses could be a good option but loads of other smaller species like King Tiger, Flash and Clown Plecos. Plecos are very messy fish (ie they poop a LOT) and hide quite a lot - I prefer whiptail catfish and there are many beautiful species but they are more slim lined, less messy and more active.

You'd potentially be able to add something like a spotted headstander in a small group here too but it would depend on if you went with a group or a pair of the cichlid species I mentioned.

Wills

 

[777james777]

Tetras require soft water and guppies hard water. Both cannot thrive in the same tank. Check with your water supplier what the hardness is. Post the numbers and units of measurement and someone will advise.
I would choose cardinal or neon tetras not both and go for a bigger group - say 20-30. My own preference between these is cardinals, but they do generally require warmer water than neons. A good site for researching fish requirements and compatibility is seriouslyfish.com
Personally I would not have a betta in a community tank. If you do have soft water corydoras go well with tetras, and this is where you need to do some research as most corydoras require cooler water than cardinals - but you can find an overlap.
I assume the fish you forgot the name of is a bristlenose plec. Make sure you get a bristlenose and not a common plec as these will quite quickly grow too large for your tank.

Firstly thanks for the advice.

Tetras or guppies - different water type. Im quite sure someone on here had a look for me and I have soft water. So in this instance id probably be better with neon tetras.
(Is it just a case of calling up my north west water or can i look online?) to be sure. 20-30 is quite a lot - i may opt for more like 10-15
Yeah i will also check out that website!

Iv been reassured by a few sources that bettas are ok if they are on their own and also in still water? Have i been mislead?

Corydoras there seem to be a few different types, any particularly?
And yes plec. Noted about the bristle nose! Yes i dont want it to grow huge haha!

 

[CaptainBarnicles]

Bettas are solitary fish, they're extremely territorial and need their own space...they're aggressive and also vulnerable where fish like tetras are concerned. Tetras are fin nippers and can target Bettas for obvious reasons. So it's a hard no from me

Wills has given you some excellent ideas above. My suggestion would be to look on a website called Seriously Fish, its the best website containing accurate information written by experts in the field. So type into your Google search bar 'tetras seriously fish' and whole load of stuff will turn up for you to look through

 

[777james777]

From your other thread I think you have very soft water is that right? I'll base my suggestions on that I agree with Sean on not putting a Betta in a tank like this, much better on their own in a 5-10 gallon tank.

The fish you've listed are great but are often so common they are a bit overbred so make sure you get good quality from a good store - we've spoken before about how close you are to Pier Aquatics for example

If I had this tank in a softwater area and access to a place like Pier I'd be looking at a school of 20-25 small slim bodied tetras, these could be the Neons or Cardinals but you could also check out Green Neon which stay a bit smaller but just as colourful and also less over bred, Black Neons are interesting or the smaller ones like Ember Tetras or a few others. Gold and Platinum Tetras are pretty spectacular too.

I'd then have in there some kind of dwarf cichlid, a lone male Bolivian Ram could do well in here but if you wanted a group or trio some kind of Apistogramma could be good Hongsloi, Macmasteri, Cacatuoides or Panduro are all spectacular fish. A group of Cupid Cichlids would be great or group of Laetacara or Nannacara, Keyhole Cichlids are all good options here. For me having a cichlid in a tank is a must, but that is personal preference, they are really intelligent animals and you get a real relationship with them that few other species/families offer.

Some catfish for the bottom would be good too, some kind of Cory - loads of options but some of my favourites that I see around are the Slates and Smudge spots. Could also go for some wood cats like Oil Catfish - though they do hide a lot. The fish you mentioned that sticks to the glass is probably a pleco - just be careful with which you choose as some get huge as said above Bristlenoses could be a good option but loads of other smaller species like King Tiger, Flash and Clown Plecos. Plecos are very messy fish (ie they poop a LOT) and hide quite a lot - I prefer whiptail catfish and there are many beautiful species but they are more slim lined, less messy and more active.

You'd potentially be able to add something like a spotted headstander in a small group here too but it would depend on if you went with a group or a pair of the cichlid species I mentioned.

Wills

Some interesting information here! Yes im pretty sure I have soft water. Was it @Essjay who checked? Apologies if not.

Regarding the over breeding and which shop owners to trust etc. Im guessing Pier Aquatics is very trustworthy and has a good reputation. I had a look and its only 25 minutes away from me so definitely worth the trip if they are as good as they sound! This may be a silly question, but will some of my fish get pregnant? For example, if im sticking 25 neon tetras together surely one of them is going to get up to no good haha.

I did have my heart set on a betta. Do they not get lonely just sat in a 5 gallon tank on their own? I obviously understand about them preferring still water. My tank is quite big and the pump is not blowing the water around frantically. Its the one with a bar at the top were the water trickles in.

Just had a look at the dwarf cichilds and they look really nice! Bolivion Ram I have just had a look at too. The Apistogramma im not too sure on. Theres obviously a lot too look at.
I think for me a good starting point is to get the school of Tertras in at first.

Is it best to have the all the same colour or can I mix?

 

[777james777]

Bettas are solitary fish, they're extremely territorial and need their own space...they're aggressive and also vulnerable where fish like tetras are concerned. Tetras are fin nippers and can target Bettas for obvious reasons. So it's a hard no from me

Wills has given you some excellent ideas above. My suggestion would be to look on a website called Seriously Fish, its the best website containing accurate information written by experts in the field. So type into your Google search bar 'tetras seriously fish' and whole load of stuff will turn up for you to look through

Thank you, okay its sounding like i may leave the betta for now and explore other avenues. - Cant beleieve how much there is to learn, its no wonder most peoples fish just die!

 

[Wills]

Some interesting information here! Yes im pretty sure I have soft water. Was it @Essjay who checked? Apologies if not.

Regarding the over breeding and which shop owners to trust etc. Im guessing Pier Aquatics is very trustworthy and has a good reputation. I had a look and its only 25 minutes away from me so definitely worth the trip if they are as good as they sound! This may be a silly question, but will some of my fish get pregnant? For example, if im sticking 25 neon tetras together surely one of them is going to get up to no good haha.

I did have my heart set on a betta. Do they not get lonely just sat in a 5 gallon tank on their own? I obviously understand about them preferring still water. My tank is quite big and the pump is not blowing the water around frantically. Its the one with a bar at the top were the water trickles in.

Just had a look at the dwarf cichilds and they look really nice! Bolivion Ram I have just had a look at too. The Apistogramma im not too sure on. Theres obviously a lot too look at.
I think for me a good starting point is to get the school of Tertras in at first.

Is it best to have the all the same colour or can I mix?

Id really go have a look at Pier, you'll see the massive variety compared to what I think you have seen so far. In terms of mixing the Tetras each 'colour' is usually a different species so they have unique features so they know past the visual (fish dont have great eye sight) but in terms of how they communicate through their electric signals and lateral lines, the hormones and pheromones they give out in the water - they know when they are with their own species and will behave more naturally, be healthier and look better in big groups of their own. You really want to keep them in minimum groups of 10-12 so when I said 20-25 you could split that into two groups - eg 12 Cardinal Tetras and 12 Black Neons but dont do 1 or 2 of each.

For the Betta, the ones with the long fins have been domesticated for decades but in the wild they live in shallow steams, flooded fields and creeks etc and will defend a small patch of water from anyone else - apart from when a female comes along. But even when they have bred the males tend their bubble nest with the eggs alone so they are quite solitary figures by nature so in a small tank we can serve those instincts quite well while replicating the slow flow of the puddles they often live in. The other thing you have to remember is that their fancy finage and colours are all line bred for vanity rather than health or wellbeing for the fish so they often can't swim that well so putting them in a big tank makes their fins a target for other fish to nip and also being slow swimmers makes them hard to compete with other fish for food so keeping them alone helps them in that way too.

Wills

 

[Wills]

Oh and in terms of fish getting pregnant - livebearers like Guppies, Platies and Swordtails get pregnant and give birth to live young but most fish lay eggs, tetras and most catfish just scatter them so they often get eaten in a tank but cichlids lay eggs and will defend and raise the eggs and youngsters. Usually in a mixed species tank the eggs or fry get eaten but if you wanted to raise them you would be able to in a separate tank.

Wills

 

[Essjay]

@777james777 You give your location as Warrington, that's in United Utilities area. When I looked before I just picked a bank in the centre of Warrington so we do need to confirm your hardness.
Go to this page

Water quality | United Utilities

To find out the quality of the water in your area.

www.unitedutilities.com

and type in your postcode in the box about half way down. That will give you a box like this


Tell us the number for "Hardness clark". That unit is not one used in fishkeeping so I'll convert it for you once we have the number.

 

[Essjay]

Also, click/tap on the word 'full' just below that box and tell us the number for "alkalinity as CaCO3" right at the top of the table. They give max, average and min - use average. That's KH.

 

[Mikeyboy123]

Many would be envious of the soft water you have.

There's good advice above. My recommendation would be

A school of corydoras at the bottom - seriously fish will give you guidance on most species you are likely to encounter at a fish shop, including temp requirements. Go for a soft sand substrate. I've only ever kept pygmies so can't give any more specific advice.

1 or 2 shoals of tetras and/or rasboras for the middle levels. ones that don't get too big (say 3.5cm). Options would be the ones mention above plus things like harlequin rasboras, lamb chop rasboras, rummy nose tetras, black line rasbora (borapatensis), brevibora dorsiocellata. Peaceful barbs such as hexazona or cherry would also work. NOT tiger barbs!
For the middle level fish, you could get one shoal for mid/bottom and one for mid/top - you can research this to see if you can find the preferred level, but a big clue is the position of the mouth. A slightly upturned mouth will likely mean that the fish keeps more to the upper levels. The fish won't stick rigidly to this, but I always try and get a bit of separation with regard to swimming levels in my tanks, otherwise you could find that you have loads of activity at the bottom of the tank and none at the top. Pencilfish would also work and are more surface dwelling.

Some plant cover such as floating or long stem plants such as egeria densa or vallisneria which will grow up and then start to grow across the water surface would make the fish feel more secure. Even those fish that favour the upper regions may stay at the bottom if the tank is bare up top. If you don't want real plants then you can get plastic ones with suckers that you can stick to the glass toward the top of the tank.

For a cichlid, I wouldn't recommend a pair of apistos at this stage. I'd go for a single male bolivian ram but would probably consider that last, once everything else is sorted.

1 bristlenose plec

 

[Essjay]

It should be pointed out that the substrate in this tank is sand and gravel - sand in the middle and gravel at the sides. While fish like cories have an area of sand, it is likely to mix with the gravel over time, with sand on the bottom and gravel on the top - which is not suitable for cories, and probably apistos and Bolivian rams as well.
See the photo in post #1 here

New to the forum

Hello all. I have just joined today! I have purchached my new tank which is 160 Litres. 100cm x 40cm x40cm. Iv joined up as I plan on keeping tropical fish for a long time so want to learn as much as possible. Below is the tank on its stand. My tank is now full of water and is currently doing...

www.fishforums.net

 

[777james777]

@777james777 You give your location as Warrington, that's in United Utilities area. When I looked before I just picked a bank in the centre of Warrington so we do need to confirm your hardness.
Go to this page

Water quality | United Utilities

To find out the quality of the water in your area.

www.unitedutilities.com

and type in your postcode in the box about half way down. That will give you a box like this
View attachment 323896

Tell us the number for "Hardness clark". That unit is not one used in fishkeeping so I'll convert it for you once we have the number.

Hardness Clark 2.03
Average is 12.5

 

[Essjay]

There are about half a dozen diiferent units of measurement for GH (hardness) but fish keeping uses just two.
You 2.03 clark converts to 1.6 dH and 29 ppm. Make a note of those as fish profiles will use one unit or the other. You have very soft water.

That 12.5 avaerage 'alkalinity as CaCO3' is the same as 12.5 ppm KH and 0.7 dKH. I suspected your KH would be low since you have very soft water. This means you are at risk of a pH drop during cycling so definitely test pH when you test for ammonia & nitrite.