What's the best combination?

[777james777]

There are about half a dozen diiferent units of measurement for GH (hardness) but fish keeping uses just two.
You 2.03 clark converts to 1.6 dH and 29 ppm. Make a note of those as fish profiles will use one unit or the other. You have very soft water.

That 12.5 avaerage 'alkalinity as CaCO3' is the same as 12.5 ppm KH and 0.7 dKH. I suspected your KH would be low since you have very soft water. This means you are at risk of a pH drop during cycling so definitely test pH when you test for ammonia & nitrite.

So to simplify (my apologies I wasnt great at chemistry) I have very soft water, which is quite a good thing. However I need to check which fish are most comfortable in soft water.
I do this by checking which fish can be in either 1.6 dH or 29ppm

Yes i will be doing my first PH ammonia and nitrite test tonight as its been 3 days

 

[Essjay]

That 1.6dH and 29 ppm are the same hardness, just in different units like inches and cm for measuring the length of a fish tank. Seriously Fish is the best website for fish research, their profiles for each fish species gives the hardness range in the water they come from. Some profiles give hardness in ppm, some give it in dH. You need to find fish which have your hardness in the range the fish profile gives.

For example, neon tetras have been mentioned - their hardness range is 18 to 215 ppm, and your 29 ppm is within that range so neon tetras suit your water.
Guppies were also mentioned. Their hardness range is 143 to 536 ppm and your hardness is well below that so no guppies.

 

[777james777]

That 1.6dH and 29 ppm are the same hardness, just in different units like inches and cm for measuring the length of a fish tank. Seriously Fish is the best website for fish research, their profiles for each fish species gives the hardness range in the water they come from. Some profiles give hardness in ppm, some give it in dH. You need to find fish which have your hardness in the range the fish profile gives.

For example, neon tetras have been mentioned - their hardness range is 18 to 215 ppm, and your 29 ppm is within that range so neon tetras suit your water.
Guppies were also mentioned. Their hardness range is 143 to 536 ppm and your hardness is well below that so no guppies.

Perfect! Thank you, im going to have a look into it now.

I almost didnt join this forum but im so glad i did! I will come back with a few I find. Then when the time comes i will go to Pier Aquatic for the fish ...

 

[777james777]

@Essjay my results are below after 3 days

PH has gone very high
Ammonia has slightly dropped
Some sign of nitrite

 

[Byron]

You mention neon and cardinal tetras in post 1, and this raises an important point to keep in mind. Some fish are fine with just one, or a few. But many of the fish we keep are what we term shoaling or schooling fish. This means they must be in a group of their own species. Ten is a good number for most of them, but there are some that need more, and some that can manage with fewer. But all of them must have sufficient of their own species. Without this, there is serious stress on the fish, and this leads to increased aggression and other health problems. The need to be in a group of their own is part of the genetic makeup of each species, so it is not something we should overlook, and it absolutely cannot be ignored or changed.

Shoaling fish includes all tetras, hatchetfishes, pencilfishes, rasboras, danios, barbs, loaches, cory catfish, rainbowfish. As you can see, that is a very large percentage of our fish. All of these, with a few exceptions, are soft water fish, so this need for a group of 10+ is going to be involved in most of the fish you consider.

 

[Essjay]

@777james777 That is to be expected. When ammonia is dissolved in water the majority of it becomes ammonium hydroxide. This is basic, that is it raises pH. As the bacteria multiply and start 'eating' ammonia, obviously ammonia is removed from the water and it is turned into into acidic nitrite, which will lower the pH. The thing which usually stops pH dropping too far is KH. Your KH is very low meaning you are risk of it all being used up and the pH dropping too far once nitrite appears.

 

[777james777]

You mention neon and cardinal tetras in post 1, and this raises an important point to keep in mind. Some fish are fine with just one, or a few. But many of the fish we keep are what we term shoaling or schooling fish. This means they must be in a group of their own species. Ten is a good number for most of them, but there are some that need more, and some that can manage with fewer. But all of them must have sufficient of their own species. Without this, there is serious stress on the fish, and this leads to increased aggression and other health problems. The need to be in a group of their own is part of the genetic makeup of each species, so it is not something we should overlook, and it absolutely cannot be ignored or changed.

Shoaling fish includes all tetras, hatchetfishes, pencilfishes, rasboras, danios, barbs, loaches, cory catfish, rainbowfish. As you can see, that is a very large percentage of our fish. All of these, with a few exceptions, are soft water fish, so this need for a group of 10+ is going to be involved in most of the fish you consider.

Thank you, i will definitely up the numbers then to like 15-20 then they will be happy and not stressed. I’d say a few died should they be replaced I’m guessing ?

 

[777james777]

@777james777 That is to be expected. When ammonia is dissolved in water the majority of it becomes ammonium hydroxide. This is basic, that is it raises pH. As the bacteria multiply and start 'eating' ammonia, obviously ammonia is removed from the water and it is turned into into acidic nitrite, which will lower the pH. The thing which usually stops pH dropping too far is KH. Your KH is very low meaning you are risk of it all being used up and the pH dropping too far once nitrite appears.

I see, so at this point, what’s the next step? Wait and test in another few days, or am I to add more ammonia ?

 

[777james777]

@777james777 That is to be expected. When ammonia is dissolved in water the majority of it becomes ammonium hydroxide. This is basic, that is it raises pH. As the bacteria multiply and start 'eating' ammonia, obviously ammonia is removed from the water and it is turned into into acidic nitrite, which will lower the pH. The thing which usually stops pH dropping too far is KH. Your KH is very low meaning you are risk of it all being used up and the pH dropping too far once nitrite appears.

If PH drops to quick does that mean a water change ?

 

[Essjay]

Test in another 3 days, then another 3, then another 3 until the readings are ammonia less than 0.75 and nitrite over 2.




Other methods of fishless cycling say to add ammonia every time it drops to zero. But this adds so much ammonia that it is turned into a lot of nitrite - so much nitrite that the cycle stalls. TwoTankAmin did a lot of research into cycling in scientific papers and wrote the method on here so that if ammonia is only added when his method says nitrite cannot get high enough to stall the cycle. Each 1 ppm ammonia is turned into something like 3 ppm nitrite so it doesn't take much ammonia to get get 15 ppm nitrite.

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You can do a water change to replenish KH, but you can also add bicarbonate of soda. There may already be a tub in the kitchen; if not it's in the home baking aisle in the supermarket.
Remind me, your tank is about 130 litres? If it is, if the pH drops take out a small amount of the water, add 3 x level 5 ml spoonfuls of bicarbonate of soda, stir till it's all dissolved then pour it back into the tank.
This is for cycling only as it adds a lot of sodium to the water and the soft water fish you need will be harmed by all that sodium. At the end of the cycle we do do a very large water change which will remove it before getting fish.
When you have fish, you'll be doing weekly 50% water changes which will put back KH. Also, since you need fish which come from soft acidic water they'll be quite happy even if the pH drifts downwards.

Small fish-only plastic tubs are very useful for all sorts of things including mixing bicarb into tank water. If you eat yoghurt, or individual cheesecakes or trifles, save the pots

 

[Byron]

Thank you, i will definitely up the numbers then to like 15-20 then they will be happy and not stressed. I’d say a few died should they be replaced I’m guessing ?

Those numbers are certainly good for the fish, but you won't have space for any others. Once we know the species we can judge numbers. I would stay in the 12 range for most, with more for certain species.

You don't have fish yet if memory serve me, so are you looking ahead when you say some die and are replaced? Let's hope none die. Some species are better than others, and some stores the same. I know of stores where every fish I ever bought seemed to have problems, while fish from others never did. I stopped using the bad stores obviously, but the source does matter.

 

[777james777]

Test in another 3 days, then another 3, then another 3 until the readings are ammonia less than 0.75 and nitrite over 2.




Other methods of fishless cycling say to add ammonia every time it drops to zero. But this adds so much ammonia that it is turned into a lot of nitrite - so much nitrite that the cycle stalls. TwoTankAmin did a lot of research into cycling in scientific papers and wrote the method on here so that if ammonia is only added when his method says nitrite cannot get high enough to stall the cycle. Each 1 ppm ammonia is turned into something like 3 ppm nitrite so it doesn't take much ammonia to get get 15 ppm nitrite.

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________​

You can do a water change to replenish KH, but you can also add bicarbonate of soda. There may already be a tub in the kitchen; if not it's in the home baking aisle in the supermarket.
Remind me, your tank is about 130 litres? If it is, if the pH drops take out a small amount of the water, add 3 x level 5 ml spoonfuls of bicarbonate of soda, stir till it's all dissolved then pour it back into the tank.
This is for cycling only as it adds a lot of sodium to the water and the soft water fish you need will be harmed by all that sodium. At the end of the cycle we do do a very large water change which will remove it before getting fish.
When you have fish, you'll be doing weekly 50% water changes which will put back KH. Also, since you need fish which come from soft acidic water they'll be quite happy even if the pH drifts downwards.

Small fish-only plastic tubs are very useful for all sorts of things including mixing bicarb into tank water. If you eat yoghurt, or individual cheesecakes or trifles, save the pots

Ahh yes I remember. Test every three day until I see the ammonia under 0.75 and the nitrite over 2

My tank is 160 litres (probably around 150 when you deduct the substrate and gap at the top of the tank.

And the reason it’s okay to do a large water change is because the nitrate (once cycled attaches to surfaces (not the water) correct. I just kept struggling to understand why all this effort to then empty the water at the end.

Would you suggest the bicarbonate soda of the water change is better for a beginner like me?

Im impressed with all your knowledge

 

[777james777]

Those numbers are certainly good for the fish, but you won't have space for any others. Once we know the species we can judge numbers. I would stay in the 12 range for most, with more for certain species.

You don't have fish yet if memory serve me, so are you looking ahead when you say some die and are replaced? Let's hope none die. Some species are better than others, and some stores the same. I know of stores where every fish I ever bought seemed to have problems, while fish from others never did. I stopped using the bad stores obviously, but the source does matter.

Yes I was referring to replacing if sadly some don’t make it. Ahh I see around 12 then. I think it will be neon tetras to start with either them or the other tetras (they have a red belly)

No not got any fish yet im
In the process of the water cycle

 

[Essjay]

The huge water change at the end of cycling is because cycling makes a lot of nitrate. Although nitrate isn't as poisonous as ammonia and nitrite it still has long term effects so we do that big water change to remove all the nitrate that's been made. Basically, it resets the tank water back to the same as the tap water.

To be honest, with a KH as low as yours (0.7dKH) even water changes won't put much KH back in so I'd use bicarbonate of soda during cycling.
And don't worry about once you have fish. We have members who use pure water with no KH, and members like Byron who have even less hardness and KH than you in their tap water. They have no problems with low pH as long as they keep fish which come from soft water.

 

[777james777]

The huge water change at the end of cycling is because cycling makes a lot of nitrate. Although nitrate isn't as poisonous as ammonia and nitrite it still has long term effects so we do that big water change to remove all the nitrate that's been made. Basically, it resets the tank water back to the same as the tap water.

see that’s what’s confusing me!
If it resets it back to the same as tap water… why do we even do it? Is it because there is still some nitrate there to continue the process ?