How many fish for my tank?

[Deeznuts]

Danios need soft water or they become egg bound. They also need a cool period for the same reason.

Scuds are either amphipods or isopods (Gammarid species). They are scavengers that eat anything dead (fish food, dead plants, dead fish, etc). You don't need to feed them anything special and they just live in the tank.

How many cichlids depends entirely on what species you keep.

That would explain why in my fish shops, danio are sold as temperate and prefer room temperature as opposed to tropical but some platy’s are sold as cold water, so perhaps they’re misinformed?

I was also told that oto are good in cold water. Lol.

These scuds sound interesting. I wonder if I'll be able to ahold of any here.

 

[Deeznuts]

Minimum group for Corydoras is 6 or more (preferably 10+).

Clown loaches need to be kept in groups of at least 6 and they grow to 8-12 inches. They need a tank that is at least 8 feet long when they are mature. These fish should not be sold because most people can't house them correctly.

If the bristlenose catfish breed, you don't have to do anything. The male looks after the eggs and babies for the first few weeks, then the young swim off and live in the aquarium.

Breeding nets stress adult fish and if you want to use one, use it to hold the babies but not the adult females. Let the adult platies breed in the tank and then catch the fry in a small container and put them into the breeding net.

Wow, really?! I always see clown loaches in like 3ft tanks in pershops. But, they're always small. I've never seen them as big as you mention but for the reasons that you mention could explain why.

I'm going to avoid any cories, too. My water doesn't suit them, so I'll avoid.

Would the Siamese algae fish be okay in hard water? It seems like a good option, although the common bristle nose doesn't sound too much of an issue, even if they breed. If I even have to worry about that.

Noted: platy babies in the best only. What if they get sucked into the filter haha. I'm sure that's a common problem people discover.

 

[Deeznuts]

If you have naturally hard water cories wouldn't be the best choice as they need soft water, when you say you have naturally hard water do you know what the parameters are? You can check your utility company's website to find out. Side note, I'd always recommend testing your hardness yourself anyway as my utility company's website said mine was sort of in the middle so I bought fish based on that, but when I tested it myself it's much much harder than they said so now I have to buy RO water to bring the hardness down to suit the fish I have. When you live in a first floor flat it's not much fun lugging 2 25 litre bottles of water up the stairs for water changes!

My parents only have the dipstick tests things right now and I know they're not 100%. I will ask them to take a picture and send it across but when I tested it myself it was two from the high end. I converted it and I'm sure it was about 180 but I can't the measurement unit.

 

[Deeznuts]

4-6 of them. There is another fish that looks very similar to them. It's commonly named the flying fox. The fly fox has colour in its fins, whereas the Siamese algae eater has clear fins. Make sure you get fish with clear fins because the flying fox can get agro when mature. They both grow to a similar size (4-5 inches) but the Siamese algae eater is much more peaceful. They both jump. You have a hood on the tank so it should be ok.



Platies don't normally eat their young unless they are hungry.



Which Apistogrammas were you looking at?
Apistogramma cacatuoides is the easiest to keep. They breed and look after the eggs and young. They do need water with a GH below 150ppm for the A. cacatuoides. Most of the other Apistogrammas need water with a GH below 100ppm. The A. cacatuoides have been captive bred for years and are a bit more tolerant of harder water compared to the others.

If you have Apistogrammas, it's probably best to avoid the Siamese Algae eaters because they all hang out near the bottom of the tank and the algae eaters might stress the cichlids when they are breeding.

Ah, yes. I read something about the Siamese fish issue online. Some stores make errors labelling them.

I was considering this one here:

Male and female.

I would have to get a real test of my water done but these two sound like the best option. I'm keeping a list of notes from everything that you tell me lol. I'm happy I found this forum. Saves a ton of time trying to hunt elsewhere online for information that's not always exactly what I need.

 

[Deeznuts]

They don't need wood, they need fiber. Fiber can be supplemented by feeding veggies that I listed once or twice a week which will help their digestion. Wood is always good but it's not necessary for bristlenose.

That's great news then. I won't have to be contend with them gnawing my tank away lol. I always drop some zucchini and cucumber every now and then. I've learnt that I have to do it in the evening though, otherwise the patties make a quick meal of it. Including the algae wafers!!!

 

[Colin_T]

That would explain why in my fish shops, danio are sold as temperate and prefer room temperature as opposed to tropical but some platy’s are sold as cold water, so perhaps they’re misinformed?

I was also told that oto are good in cold water. Lol.

These scuds sound interesting. I wonder if I'll be able to ahold of any here.

Platies, swordtails and guppies can all live in cool water. We used to find Xiphophorus variatus platies in the local creek and the temperature varied from 5-45C throughout the year (down to 5C in winter and up to 45C in summer). Same deal with a lot of people that kept swordtails in backyard ponds. This doesn't mean you can grab fish from a tank that has 28C water and put them in a coldwater pond, but if they are given a few months for the water to gradually cool down, most common livebearers can tolerate cool or even cold water.

Otocinclus catfish will tolerate temperatures down to 18C but are not a coldwater fish.

I used to collect scuds from the local creek. Just walk around the edge of a creak and lift plants off the soil. The creepy crawlies would go everywhere and you use a fine mesh fish net or bucket to scoop them up.

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We need to know the actual GH before we can say yes or no to the Siamese algae eater. So when you get that, post it here and we can go from there.

Baby fish do sometimes get sucked into filters and quite often are happy swimming around in them. Obviously you try to get them out when you can but it does happen.

Apistogramma cacatuoides are a nice fish. Get a pair if the water is soft enough and enjoy them because they are nice fish. They probably won't look like the fish in the picture when you get them but the males do eventually colour up and look like the fish in the picture when they mature around 3-6 months of age. Females stay a yellow colour.

 

[Deeznuts]

Platies, swordtails and guppies can all live in cool water. We used to find Xiphophorus variatus platies in the local creek and the temperature varied from 5-45C throughout the year (down to 5C in winter and up to 45C in summer). Same deal with a lot of people that kept swordtails in backyard ponds. This doesn't mean you can grab fish from a tank that has 28C water and put them in a coldwater pond, but if they are given a few months for the water to gradually cool down, most common livebearers can tolerate cool or even cold water.

Otocinclus catfish will tolerate temperatures down to 18C but are not a coldwater fish.

I used to collect scuds from the local creek. Just walk around the edge of a creak and lift plants off the soil. The creepy crawlies would go everywhere and you use a fine mesh fish net or bucket to scoop them up.

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We need to know the actual GH before we can say yes or no to the Siamese algae eater. So when you get that, post it here and we can go from there.

Baby fish do sometimes get sucked into filters and quite often are happy swimming around in them. Obviously you try to get them out when you can but it does happen.

Apistogramma cacatuoides are a nice fish. Get a pair if the water is soft enough and enjoy them because they are nice fish. They probably won't look like the fish in the picture when you get them but the males do eventually colour up and look like the fish in the picture when they mature around 3-6 months of age. Females stay a yellow colour.

Wow, that’s crazy. I’d never thought of platys, swordtails guppies in that way. You can never find any interesting fish in our lakes or streams. You would be lucky to find tadpoles. There’s mostly ducks everywhere. Someone claims they’ve seen terrapins but I don’t believe it.
Out of curiosity then, could I; if I chose to, have a small outside pond with platys and guppies?. It sounds like they’d survive as our winters aren’t harsh at all.

If only it were that easy for me to find scuds. I’d probably have to find a website somewhere. So, scuds can literally live in cold and tropical waters then? Sounds like a simple straightforward option. Most shrimps I’ve looked at, need specific parameters etc.

Okay. I’ll get back to you guys about the parameters when I know more. And, I’ll definitely look into Apistogramma cacatuoides, too.

 

[Colin_T]

Yes scuds can live in cold or warm water. They are found all over the planet except the poles and are quite adaptable. Obviously don't get some from the equator and stick them in freezing water but they are pretty tolerant of temperatures.

If you get guppies and platies and put them outdoors in a pond during spring, they should breed and if you bring the adults in during winter, some of the babies might survive. These babies can then be left to grow up and breed the following spring and summer and over a few generations you get a cold water strain. You can increase their survival rates by insulating the pond or putting bubblewrap on most of the surface during winter. The bubblewrap helps the water stay warmer at night, and increases the temperature of the water when the sun shines on it. This is what I did years ago when breeding rainbowfish outdoors and I ended up with fish that could survive in water that was 3C and right up to 45C+, and it only took 3-4 generations to get there. Every year or two you add a few new fish in spring to add new bloodlines and keep the strain strong.

 

[Deeznuts]

Yes scuds can live in cold or warm water. They are found all over the planet except the poles and are quite adaptable. Obviously don't get some from the equator and stick them in freezing water but they are pretty tolerant of temperatures.

If you get guppies and platies and put them outdoors in a pond during spring, they should breed and if you bring the adults in during winter, some of the babies might survive. These babies can then be left to grow up and breed the following spring and summer and over a few generations you get a cold water strain. You can increase their survival rates by insulating the pond or putting bubblewrap on most of the surface during winter. The bubblewrap helps the water stay warmer at night, and increases the temperature of the water when the sun shines on it. This is what I did years ago when breeding rainbowfish outdoors and I ended up with fish that could survive in water that was 3C and right up to 45C+, and it only took 3-4 generations to get there. Every year or two you add a few new fish in spring to add new bloodlines and keep the strain strong.

Aha. I’ve found some scuds on eBay. The lady breeds them in her tank, so this would be where I’d get them from. 40 for £10 seems like good value.

Nice! Wait, these babies? They’d be inbred wouldn’t they aha. Unless two different pairs of platys have children and then these children bred lol. Sounds so interesting.

My parents have informed me that a specific play is picking on these other two platys so much that they’re now hiding in the little hide that I put in the tank lol. I may just have to rescue them and acclimate them to the cold water tank for a short while and then acclimate outside.

The room temperature is 20celsius while the tropical tank is 25. Would a drip acclimation for an hour be best or, a small cup of cold into the tropical water bit by bit be best. I’ve never really done this sort of process. Usually the whole float bag for an hour concept lol

 

[Colin_T]

I would just float the new platy in a bag in the cooler tank for 30-60 minutes then add it. The fish will probably be a bit slower for a few days but should settle down after that.

Virtually any fish you buy from a pet shop or breeder will be related to each other. About the only way to get unrelated fish is to go and collect some from the wild and go to several locations in the wild for them.

 

[Deeznuts]

I would just float the new platy in a bag in the cooler tank for 30-60 minutes then add it. The fish will probably be a bit slower for a few days but should settle down after that.

Virtually any fish you buy from a pet shop or breeder will be related to each other. About the only way to get unrelated fish is to go and collect some from the wild and go to several locations in the wild for them.

I see. I never thought of fish like that to be honest. I thought they’d always try to make pedigree fish, similar to dogs lol. Although, if they did, I imagine they’d want a lot of money ahaha.

I just ordered some scuds today. 40. 10 for the tropical, 5 for the cold water tank, and 25 for the pond. I have some plants in there, so they may survive. I read that some people stick them in pond filters. Do you think that’s an appropriate option?

 

[Colin_T]

Some dog and cat breeders regularly inbreed their animals to encourage certain traits (deformities) in their animals. It screws the animals up too just like fish. These are some common issues in dogs that are caused by breeders inbreeding animals.

Cavalier King Charles Spaniels, pugs, staffies, boxers and various other breeds with short snouts have breathing problems due to a shorter snout.
A number of small breeds have problems with their knees.
Certain breeds have hip dysplasia.
Breast cancer is genetic in dogs and breeders regularly inbreed animals that carry the gene for it.
There's a bunch of other issues that affect modern dog breeds that were virtually unheard of 50 or 60 years ago.

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Scuds might end up in the filter but it's not the best place for them. Just add them to the tank after the tank lights have been turned off and the fish are asleep. If you add them when the fish are awake and the fish are hungry, they might eat them.

 

[Aqua67]

The small like bonsai tree in the tank growing out of the rocks has 3 seven inch long driftwood glued to it with the Anubis glued to the top. I don’t like the idea of the shredding the driftwood away though!
Could a bigger piece on the floor distract them from this?

I’ve never heard of this scud thing. You say they eat amphipods. Would that require me to offer them live shrimps? Doesn’t sound like the kindest thing ( cheapest option ) lol and other fish like to feed on them. Essentially, a small ecosystem concept. I’m not sure if they’re available in the U.K.

Yeah, I’ve looked into shrimp and the issue was the soft water. It would require buying R.O water. I’m not sure on the who soft water concept or reducing what I have naturally. I read something about boiling water but I’d rather keep it simpler for my parents.

Never really been a fan of danios. To me, they’re not very appealing to look at and my parents would agree. They do like the angelfish but in the past when they kept them, they never did well at all. I was young back then, so I have no idea about what the problem may have been. I think they also need higher water temperature, too. I might be mistaken.

The acara isn’t a common fish here but if they do okay solo, that may be a good idea, too.

If cichlids aren’t schooling fish. What if I kept just the one? Lol or is it best to keep cichlids by themselves.

A scud is an amphipod, which is similar to a tiny shrimp of sorts. They are a great part of a cleanup crew and fish like the electric blue acara would definitely eat them if they saw them swimming around. They are a healthy live food snack for fish. In my opinion one cichlid can make a nice centerpiece fish, whether that is the graceful and interactive angelfish, or the little acara which, similar to an angelfish, is considered a community tank ”peaceful” cichlid. Mind you, “peaceful” is a relative term as most cichlids are not very peaceful at all.

I don’t think there is a way to prevent the bristlenose from gnawing away on your driftwood. If you have driftwood piled up in a way that makes a cave, they’ll likely find a spot underneath the ceiling to grind away and spend much of their time. A pleco will want some caves to hide in though, and that sort of thing may change the look of your lovely aquarium.

If you don’t want one 6 inch centerpiece fish, perhaps you’d be happy with a few schools of little fish. Maybe 12 ember tetras, 12 neon tetras or perhaps rummynose tetras, and a small school of your favorite rasbora. Those little fishes would be swimming all over your tank. You could include a few ottocinclas and perhaps a small school of Pygmy cories.

If you go the route of a centerpiece fish then I would choose some of the larger tetras for a school, along with Corydora or kuhli loaches for your bottom feeders.

It is so fun planning for a new aquarium.

 

[Deeznuts]

Some dog and cat breeders regularly inbreed their animals to encourage certain traits (deformities) in their animals. It screws the animals up too just like fish. These are some common issues in dogs that are caused by breeders inbreeding animals.

Cavalier King Charles Spaniels, pugs, staffies, boxers and various other breeds with short snouts have breathing problems due to a shorter snout.
A number of small breeds have problems with their knees.
Certain breeds have hip dysplasia.
Breast cancer is genetic in dogs and breeders regularly inbreed animals that carry the gene for it.
There's a bunch of other issues that affect modern dog breeds that were virtually unheard of 50 or 60 years ago.

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Scuds might end up in the filter but it's not the best place for them. Just add them to the tank after the tank lights have been turned off and the fish are asleep. If you add them when the fish are awake and the fish are hungry, they might eat them.

Yeah, I’ve seen books of breeds before people started messing around with their genes and they looked naturally top-notch animals. It’s horrible what people do to dogs to make them look a certain way. I find a lot of these inbred dogs ugly. I’ve always preferred full pedigree dogs, although my Rottweiler had baggy cheeks but was told it was the American breed. Before him, I only ever knew of the German breed with a broad head.

Good call about the scuds. My minnows won’t stand a chance but I’ll be sure to let my parents know as I won’t be there to acclimate them.

 

[TwoTankAmin]

I know a bit about plecos. I started with bristlenose- regular fins, long fins albinos. I eventually had to get rid of them all. My last spawn was over 100 fry. Just so you know. it takes years for them to get there.

I also keep clown loaches. I only have a 6 foot tanks 150 gals. But I only had 3 largeer ones 10 inch or more. I lost my biggest and oldest which was over 20 years old when it passed. So now I have 2 big ones and another 8 from 3+ to 5+ inches. They are one of my favorite fish.

My water is basically neutral pH and it is on the soft side. So I cannot be much help with harder water fish. As others have noted you need to know the numbers. Either buy the API GH test kit or else ask your local store if the can test your water if you bring in a sample. many store will do tests for you at least once if your a re customer. Hardness is more important in terms of fish selection than pH.

When I bought a proven breeding colony of zebra plecos along with a few of their fry, I knew two things about the adults, They were wild caught fish and were almost cetrainly genetically diverse. I was mentored re plecos by a few well known experts. These are the sort of people you see at weekend events doing the presentations and talks. The gal who set me up had assembled the group for the person from whom I purchased them.

One of the questions I asked her was how many generations I could go before I needed to introduce fresh genes, The answer was at least 5. Considering the fish generally need about 3 year from birth to spawning we were talking over 15 years. I lost some and added other over the past 20 years but now have sold them all off. The oldest ones are going to a retirement tanks on the ooposite side of the country from me.

Common tank strains of Bristlenose breed in a matter of months, not years, after they are born. Also, bristlenos plecos like wood. They do not eat it per se. They will hide under or in it and they will eat the algae and the critters living in the algae off of the wood. They are what is known as Aufwuchs feeders. most male plecos need caves to claim and to hide in.