What The ...

[Tolak]

This isn't a religious or political forum and IMHO it's high time we stopped wasting everyones time and get back to the fish.

This reminds me of a saying from an old aquarist friend of mine, much older and wiser than I;

"What does this have to do with fish?"

 

[OohFeeshy]

This issue started following a complaint from a member specifically regarding the now swear-filtered FTW (rearrange...you get the idea ).

Oh come come. It's already been said that everyone has differing opinions, perhaps it should be put to poll (as I'm certain the majority will be on the 'stop overreacting, it's not even taken as component words anymore, just a general expression of disbelief'. I had someone having a squinny at me for daring to use a picture of Death in my avatar, doesn't mean we should call for a ban on anything that might remind people of their mortality...

 

[Ferris]

This issue started following a complaint from a member specifically regarding the now swear-filtered FTW (rearrange...you get the idea ).

Oh come come. It's already been said that everyone has differing opinions, perhaps it should be put to poll (as I'm certain the majority will be on the 'stop overreacting, it's not even taken as component words anymore, just a general expression of disbelief'. I had someone having a squinny at me for daring to use a picture of Death in my avatar, doesn't mean we should call for a ban on anything that might remind people of their mortality...

I probably agree with everything you've just said Oohfeeshy, i'm not justifying/criticising the desicion to add "you know what" to the swear filter - i really have little interest, and therefore opinion, in the whole dull affair.

I'm merely pointing out that this query has been specific to one singular abbreviation and was raised by a member - it's not some mad mod crusade to randomly ban miscellaneous words/phrases.

I'm now going to switch the PC off for the night as this whole topic is causing me to lose the will to live.

 

[Inchworm]

I've noticed a number of members read this thread and leave without posting, and suspect that at least some of them might be wondering what all this is about. It's for them that I am making this post.

First, let me make one thing very clear. TFF is a privately owned and operated website. William, the Admin and owner, makes the rules, usually after being advised by the moderators, about the pros and cons of an issue. This is not a democracy where the members vote and their decision becomes law. For the latest update of the General Rules for the forum. please click here:

http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?act=boardrules

In addition to that, and specific to the matter at hand, William said earlier in this thread:

There is no need or place for swearing even through abbreviations on this forum.

The moderators are fishkeeping volunteers who assist William by interpreting and applying the rules to issues, as they come up. It is our role to make decisions, on a case by case basis, not just on words but on the perceived intent of the writers. The swear filter is a tool that helps us by totally ruling out certain of the most outrageously offensive words, not every word that might possibly be offensive to someone. It is, by no means, inclusive of all potentially troublesome words, and it probably never will be.

As we all know, even simple, everyday words can cause hurt or offense if written in such a way as to scare, intimidate, embarrass or harass a person. The moderators urge members who have seen this kind of usage, either in a post or a PM, to report it to us, since it takes a human to understand intent. We do appreciate the helpfulness of members who click the "Report" button at appropriate times, although we may or may not always agree with you.

And special thanks to all of you good members who never feel the need to waste our time with spam!

 

[OohFeeshy]

In addition to that, and specific to the matter at hand, William said earlier in this thread:

There is no need or place for swearing even through abbreviations on this forum.

But it isn't, as per se. For example, if you take the abbreviation 'LOL', I don't think anyone actually takes it to mean 'laugh out loud' any more, just as a word that means something is funny. The same can be said for everything like that; LMAO, FTW, BRB, ROFL'.... Although you might *think* you're breaking it down, you're pretty much just getting the feeling of what it means in your mind, the same as any other word. What it stands for is pretty irrelevent.

 

[Nina]

As we all know, even simple, everyday words can cause hurt or offense if written in such a way as to scare, intimidate, embarrass or harass a person. The moderators urge members who have seen this kind of usage, either in a post or a PM, to report it to us, since it takes a human to understand intent. We do appreciate the helpfulness of members who click the "Report" button at appropriate times, although we may or may not always agree with you.

I appreciate that you may not always agree with the members who report posts but surely if the reporting person finds "whatever" offensive then it should be removed from the post and added to the swear filter. There are many people on here who don't find half the words on the swear filter offensive but because certain mods do they are added. If the word is reported because it is offensive then it should be dealt with, not ignored because the mod who looks at the report doesn't agree.

Why for example the FTW be added but LMFAO not be added. Surely if the "F" is the offensive part then all "F" word abbreviations should be added.

And special thanks to all of you good members who never feel the need to waste our time with spam!

I actually think this is a rather petty and pathetic thing for a mod to say. In fact I find it quite offensive. The good members? Are you taking the piss? (Just out of interest why isn't this word banned?)The majority of members who have posted in this thread simply want to know where they stand with abbreviations and swear/offensive words. They don't want to receive threatening pm advising they will be banned without them even being told why. Especially if they have been using words that previously never offended anyone.

I know you can't give a definitive list of words that are offensive as different people find different things offensive as you can obviously tell from the posts and reports you receive. But to call the members who don't waste your time good members? Surely you want them to comply with the rules set down?

I'm now going to switch the PC off for the night as this whole topic is causing me to lose the will to live. hehe.gif

Ferris - I know this thread is causing you to lose the will to live and I am sorry but I do feel that this matter could quite easily be solved (and probably even avoided in the first place) by a mod by just adding the word to the banned filter with an explanation PM rather than the threatening and rather rude one.

On the other hand, I think some people should get a life and not report everything they find offensive as they will need to start thickening up that cotton wall padding they have for every day life


Edit - because I can't spell or use grammar!

 

[andywg]

As we all know, even simple, everyday words can cause hurt or offense if written in such a way as to scare, intimidate, embarrass or harass a person. The moderators urge members who have seen this kind of usage, either in a post or a PM, to report it to us, since it takes a human to understand intent.

So why did I receive a warning when purely discussing the merits or otherwise of the now banned word? I did not say it to anyone, but merely referred to it as it was topical and not a banned word. It takes a human to understand intent, yet that did not take place at all. Andy says bad form.

Also, why do you have such a problem with replying to PMs Inch?

I would expect far more from our mods, at the very least some clarification of what actions a member has performed are actually a problem, especially in an area where the forum's rules are so vague and currently undergoing change.

Interestingly will we see other acronyms and abbreviations added to the filter? If every time the F bomb appears in an abbreviation is not allowed, surely we should also ban the somewhat less than extensive list of offensive acronyms below:

SNAFU
SWWCFI
AMF
BAMF
DBFN
DILLIGAF
FURB
GAFL
GAGF
GFU
GFYS
IDFC
IDGAF
IHTFP
LMFAO

 

[PlecMama]

I am so out of touch with code-swearing. I worked out some of those, and at a later date, I expect, I will go look up the ones that I don't know.

However, I have to know....am I a good poster or a bad poster? I wasn't sure after that if I was wasting anyone's time by joining in here either. Though I have never encountered a mod-prob myself, I did feel a certain despair over the good/poster/bad/poster idea. Are we not all Mods children?

 

[CFC]

Well i hope you aren't all mods children otherwise i could be expecting an almighty huge CSA bill sometime soon !

Anyway i would like to state that the mods have not been unanimous other this particular topic and that i for one have not found any abbreviated words offensive, before we all get tarred with the same brush

 

[Tolak]

^LOL - did you know said borough council installed a filter on their email system & then wondered why they stopped getting *ANY* emails!

lol I don't find that hard to believe at all. I am not someone that is offended by language in an "adult" setting, in fact I hate it when they moderate films and show them at 10pm - what the heck for?? (see how easy that was? lol) - but I do object when I hear people shouting rude words in the street, especially when Dylan is with me and says "Mommy, why did that man just say____?, that's a rude word" Yes, and one I didn't want you to repeat. Grr.

Let's go back to the Bill Clinton/Monica Lewinsky scandal in the late '90's. This was plastered all over every news network, and I had an 8 year old son asking me what oral sex was. Of course it's when you talk about it, as in an oral book report.

There are times in life when a parent trying to do a good job raising a child in a moral environment get situations tossed at them that are totally unexpected. Sucessfully dealing with these situations are what teaches folks to be good parents. Why the fuss.

 

[PlecMama]

Humm, what fuss? no one was making a fuss. I said I don't like to hear people swear in the street. I don't think that's unreasonable.

 

[andywg]

However, I have to know....am I a good poster or a bad poster? I wasn't sure after that if I was wasting anyone's time by joining in here either. Though I have never encountered a mod-prob myself, I did feel a certain despair over the good/poster/bad/poster idea.

Indeed. Perhaps Inchworm would like to expand and tell us all what we have to do to fall into either category.

 

[Tolak]

Humm, what fuss? no one was making a fuss. I said I don't like to hear people swear in the street. I don't think that's unreasonable.

And what would the acronym be for why the fuss? I thought that would be an easy catch, and something off the top of my head that would explain away a certain now banned acronym to my kids when they were younger and certain vocabulary I felt they shouldn't be exposed to was encountered.

It's not just vocabulary on the street or in the entertainment industry, or acronyms used online or elsewhere. The political scandal I pointed out was something that was overplayed by the mainstream media 10 years ago, and was a situation I, and I'm sure many other parents with younger children had to get creative with when offering an explanation. There are many similar situations occurring every day, shoved non-stop in our faces thanks to the media, that I feel would shock or scare youngsters, or need careful creative explanation.

These situations are going to pop up when raising children, and the way you explain it to your children is up to you, the parent, as you are the one who ultimately judges what info or situation your children should be exposed to, and in what context and what age. Without a doubt my now 18 year old son knows what the Clinton/Lewinsky deal was about, knows my explanation was a creative play on vocabulary, but was the best decision a parent could make with a child that age, giving him a good example of what parents do in situations like that.

You sound like a good parent, and it is the parent's right and responsibility to raise their child in the way they see fit. At times this takes twisting an explanation a bit, until the child is a little older & more mature, and is able to understand the full scope of the situation. When they do, they will look back at the original explanation, and see a parent doing the best job they could with a youngster. My three kids, 18, 25, and 26, look back at some of the explanations & reasoning behind them from way back, totally understand the reasoning, which in turn will give them a baseline for good parenting.

I personally don't find any of the acronyms that are being discussed, or any of the banned words offensive, as I probably use plenty of them on a daily basis. I also read the rules when I joined this site, and had no problem understanding that if I posted in a way that I would normally talk hanging out with my aquarist buddies that I would be banned after the first post.

I also understand the point andywg has been making, in reference to the evolution of the spoken, or typed language. The owner of this site does not want to see that evolution of language on this site, no different than the owner of a classical music radio station doesn’t wish to hear jazz, blues or rock on their station.

Words may be added to (or removed) from the filter as and when we see necessary. There is no need or place for swearing even through abbreviations on this forum.

The way I see it we are all guests in William’s house, and should all conduct ourselves in a way that William sees as being appropriate.

 

[Darkstar]

Hi andywg,

I am giving you an official warning about by-passing the swear filter on the forum. If you value your membership, you will not continue to break our rules.

Hi andywg,

If you follow the General Rules, all will be well

I also think these responses leave a lot to be desired. Whoever wrote that needs a few lessons in moderating, and needs to get off their pedestal too.
I won't go so far as to group all the mods together as I'd like to think there's a few good ones in the bunch but from what I've seen some of them certainly have room for improvement. Too many times for example I've seen threads suddenly shut for no reason, or at least, no explanation. Whether mods agree with something or not, by the fact that members have spent time writing posts, the least that could happen when a thread is shut is the mods spend a little time explaining why it was shut.


As for all this banning of abbreviations..personally I think it's well over the top and once again it's politcal correctness gone mad. Whether we like it or not we live in a society where swearing is commonplace. We all have our own ideas of what is correct behaviour and what isn't.
In short, while I accept the generally more offensive words shouldn't be allowed as standard in the forums. I do think some leeway should be given to abbreviations and the milder swear words. If used towards another members then no, it isn't under any cirumstances acceptable, however, if it's used to explain someones day or an experience they've had then I don't see the problem. Like everything in life it has it's place.

The way I see it we are all guests in William’s house, and should all conduct ourselves in a way that William sees as being appropriate.

I don't remember ever having to fill out a membership form before to be a guest? However if you're right and we are guests, then I think the host could be spending a little more time with his guests....

 

[Squid]

This does seem all very complex.

If you find something that you find offensive - Report it.

If it is deemed offensive by the mods - notify the offender 'with the details', and be adult about it.

If offender is a repeat offender - deal with it.

oh.. and andywg; please PM me what all those acronyms mean, I'm so out of touch

Squid