well here goes

[chrisnolan]

all ready to start on my new journey, hardscape all put in last night and left to set in place. Just added all the plants, (think I may have gone a bit overboard but hey the more the merrier they say)
Just filled it up and switched on heater and filter - fingers crossed everything works the way it should do.
Have added the water conditioner as directed and the 2 x vials of bacteria stuff that came with my aquasoil - now the questions
1. do i leave on the light and if so for how long
2. do i need to add any ammonia (i bought dr tims ammonia chloride solution as i was intending to do a fishless cycle, but now trying a silent one)
3. how often do i need to test the water
4. when do i need to do a water change
think thats all for now, thank you for taking the time to read, wish me luck

 

[Slaphppy7]

Welcome to TFF.

First and foremost, read this, and post any questions you may have: https://www.fishforums.net/threads/cycling-your-new-fresh-water-tank-read-this-first.421488/

 

[chrisnolan]

Welcome to TFF.

First and foremost, read this, and post any questions you may have: https://www.fishforums.net/threads/cycling-your-new-fresh-water-tank-read-this-first.421488/

thank you, thats very informative, sorry for posting in the wrong thread

 

[Slaphppy7]

thank you, thats very informative, sorry for posting in the wrong thread

More than welcome...the section of the forum you posted your thread in is appropriate, no apologies necessary

 

[Ch4rlie]

Slaphppy7 has already given some good information and that linked thread for fishless cycling is definitely one to follow as I do not believe you have enough live plants to attempt a silent cycle anyway.

But will try to answer your other questions in the meantime -

1. do i leave on the light and if so for how long
2. do i need to add any ammonia (i bought dr tims ammonia chloride solution as i was intending to do a fishless cycle, but now trying a silent one)
3. how often do i need to test the water
4. when do i need to do a water change

1 - For the duration of fishless cycle, you do not need to leave the light on if you do not wish to. Lighting on or off does not affect bacteria growth of fishless cycle at all.
But for the benefit of your plants that you have at the moment which looks like mostly cryptocorynes which are low tech plants, means they not do require much light but might be worth leaving light on 7-8 hours a day to help establish plant growth, a plug in timer for the lights would be of great benefit for this as help maintain lighting routine for plants and livestock when you do eventually get them.
One other thing, cryptocornes are heavy root feeders, a good tip is to have some decent root ferts planted into the substrate near their roots every once in a while would help them grow nicely.

2. Follow the fishless cycle thread that was linked earlier for ammonia dosages and how often to dose etc.

3. To start with, test the water every 2-3 days or so just to see if you have ammonia and nitrite numbers, these should grow steadily until it peaks and then a rapid drop should occur once near the end of the cycle, will take a while before you'll see any drops in ammonia and nitrite numbers though.

4. Do NOT do any water changes whilst the fishless cycle is ongoing, doing a water change may disrupt the cycle which basically means you may be restarting the cycle process every time you do large water changes, could even stall the cycle whci is worst case scenario.

Only do water change once the fishless cycle has been completed fully and successfully, then do a large a water change as you can, this gives fresh water and to remove any nitrates for the new livestock when you are ready to add them. Of course not forgetting to dechlorinate the water beforehand.

Once livestock has been added and tank running nicely, once weekly water changes of around 50% minumum (around 70-75% is best imho) as this helps to remove any containments and nitrates as well as removing as much debris and poop from the water coloumn as possible for the livestock.
Temperature matching (one or two degrees cooler is fine but definately not a huge drop or rise in temperature as this could cause the livestock to go into shock, not nice to see as I have made this mistake once sadly when I was a newbie) and adding dechlorinator whilst doing water change is good fishkeeping practice.

 

[chrisnolan]

Slaphppy7 has already given some good information and that linked thread for fishless cycling is definitely one to follow as I do not believe you have enough live plants to attempt a silent cycle anyway.

But will try to answer your other questions in the meantime -



1 - For the duration of fishless cycle, you do not need to leave the light on if you do not wish to. Lighting on or off does not affect bacteria growth of fishless cycle at all.
But for the benefit of your plants that you have at the moment which looks like mostly cryptocorynes which are low tech plants, means they not do require much light but might be worth leaving light on 7-8 hours a day to help establish plant growth, a plug in timer for the lights would be of great benefit for this as help maintain lighting routine for plants and livestock when you do eventually get them.
One other thing, cryptocornes are heavy root feeders, a good tip is to have some decent root ferts planted into the substrate near their roots every once in a while would help them grow nicely.

2. Follow the fishless cycle thread that was linked earlier for ammonia dosages and how often to dose etc.

3. To start with, test the water every 2-3 days or so just to see if you have ammonia and nitrite numbers, these should grow steadily until it peaks and then a rapid drop should occur once near the end of the cycle, will take a while before you'll see any drops in ammonia and nitrite numbers though.

4. Do NOT do any water changes whilst the fishless cycle is ongoing, doing a water change may disrupt the cycle which basically means you may be restarting the cycle process every time you do large water changes, could even stall the cycle whci is worst case scenario.

Only do water change once the fishless cycle has been completed fully and successfully, then do a large a water change as you can, this gives fresh water and to remove any nitrates for the new livestock when you are ready to add them. Of course not forgetting to dechlorinate the water beforehand.

Once livestock has been added and tank running nicely, once weekly water changes of around 50% minumum (around 70-75% is best imho) as this helps to remove any containments and nitrates as well as removing as much debris and poop from the water coloumn as possible for the livestock.
Temperature matching (one or two degrees cooler is fine but definately not a huge drop or rise in temperature as this could cause the livestock to go into shock, not nice to see as I have made this mistake once sadly when I was a newbie) and adding dechlorinator whilst doing water change is good fishkeeping practice.

thank you. I am expecting some more fast growing plants today to add into the tank, namely l.sessilliflora, vallis, hygrophila difformis and sag. suulata. Would this be enough to forgo the ammonia adding. I also have a couple of stems of water sprite but i planted them behind the large wood in the centre, should they be floating. I have root tabs but forgot to put them in when i first set up and also liquid fertilizer which I haven't added yet, should I add some now to give the plants an initial boost. If I do have to use the ammonia I have Dr Tim's, how much should I use, I have read that a large first dose could harm the plants and that's the last thing I want to do. Sorry for all the questions

 

[chrisnolan]

sorry - another question - my internal filter doesn't seem to agitate the water surface at all, the outlet pipe is around 2-3 inches below the surface - would an airstone be beneficial to help the water movement

 

[Ch4rlie]

For silent cycling, you need a lot of plants to achieve cycling from this method.

I would suggest to stay with the Fishless cycling as the silent cycle method does require some knowledge to know what to look for, not quite easy enough for a beginner to the hobby imho.

With the fishless cycle article, everything has been written down in the easiest way possible really. It may seem a little overwhelming at first with lots of information to take in but once you actually start doing the cycle physically you then begin to learn fairly quickly what the fishless cycle is all about.

I actually personally prefer doing the fishless cycle than any other method to be fair as I enjoy the process and have done this countless times and enjoy it every time, that’s just me though.

However nothing beats having good mature bacteria from an established tank filter for the fastest method of cycling. This bacteria can be found in the form of some sponge media and even some plants and a handful substrate from an established tank as the beneficial bacteria can be found on all surfaces in fish tanks.

However, you will still ammonia as this is used to test if both types of beneficial bacteria has fully formed and can consume all ammonia and nitrite within 24 hours.

As for your internal filter not agitating the water surface, can the filter be raised so that the output nozzle is on or near surface of water?

Some internal filter have optional extra nozzles that can be fitted to the output nozzle for variety of heights or types of agitation.

 

[chrisnolan]

For silent cycling, you need a lot of plants to achieve cycling from this method.

I would suggest to stay with the Fishless cycling as the silent cycle method does require some knowledge to know what to look for, not quite easy enough for a beginner to the hobby imho.

With the fishless cycle article, everything has been written down in the easiest way possible really. It may seem a little overwhelming at first with lots of information to take in but once you actually start doing the cycle physically you then begin to learn fairly quickly what the fishless cycle is all about.

I actually personally prefer doing the fishless cycle than any other method to be fair as I enjoy the process and have done this countless times and enjoy it every time, that’s just me though.

However nothing beats having good mature bacteria from an established tank filter for the fastest method of cycling. This bacteria can be found in the form of some sponge media and even some plants and a handful substrate from an established tank as the beneficial bacteria can be found on all surfaces in fish tanks.

However, you will still ammonia as this is used to test if both types of beneficial bacteria has fully formed and can consume all ammonia and nitrite within 24 hours.

As for your internal filter not agitating the water surface, can the filter be raised so that the output nozzle is on or near surface of water?

Some internal filter have optional extra nozzles that can be fitted to the output nozzle for variety of heights or types of agitation.

thanks for your swift reply. I will do as you suggest and go the fishless route. Will add the ammonia once the postie has been this morning as am waiting on the test kit to arrive, i only have the strips atm so bought the API one as that seems to be the best one to go for. The filter is a built in one in the tank (Jewel Rio 180) so I don't think I can alter it. One other thing if you don't mind, I used the strips to test my tap water and got the readings of amm 0, nitrite 0, nitrate 0, GH 50, KH 50, pH 6.4 so does that mean I have very soft water - just so I know which type of fish would be best for me to look out for - I am hoping for some groups of small tetras, a couple of gouramis, maybe corys and hopefully a few shrimp

 

[Ch4rlie]

The dip test kit can be misleading to be honest. But as a loose guide it may be ok.

It does look like you have soft water but the best ways to determine this is to either get a GH test kit and test your tap water and that will produce a better idea or take a sample of water to your LFS and ask them to do all tests including water hardness test, they may charge a small fee for this but ensure you get exact numbers rather a ‘it’s fine’ response from staff.

Another way is to look up online for your water supplier water hardness readings, all supplier do provide those in a variety of ways and measures of units. If unsure what to look for, simply do a screenshot of the webpage of local water supplier water hardness and we can help you decipher this.

As for your filter, is this fixed to your tank permanently or affixed with 4 or 6 black sucker pads at back of filter?

Most filters are movable but certain types are fixed in place.

If sucker pad, then you can simply firmly move/slide the filter upwards.

If fitlter is permanently affixed then maybe lower the tank water until desired agitation is reached, only a temporary measure until tank fully cycled.

 

[chrisnolan]

The dip test kit can be misleading to be honest. But as a loose guide it may be ok.

It does look like you have soft water but the best ways to determine this is to either get a GH test kit and test your tap water and that will produce a better idea or take a sample of water to your LFS and ask them to do all tests including water hardness test, they may charge a small fee for this but ensure you get exact numbers rather a ‘it’s fine’ response from staff.

Another way is to look up online for your water supplier water hardness readings, all supplier do provide those in a variety of ways and measures of units. If unsure what to look for, simply do a screenshot of the webpage of local water supplier water hardness and we can help you decipher this.

As for your filter, is this fixed to your tank permanently or affixed with 4 or 6 black sucker pads at back of filter?

Most filters are movable but certain types are fixed in place.

If sucker pad, then you can simply firmly move/slide the filter upwards.

If fitlter is permanently affixed then maybe lower the tank water until desired agitation is reached, only a temporary measure until tank fully cycled.

United Utilities chart says soft, 2.24 hardness Clarke

 

[Ch4rlie]

2.24 degrees clark works out to be about 32ppm or 1.8dH roughly.

All those plus pH 6.4 means you do have soft water which has a good variety of specie choices such as tetras and cories.

When researching suitable species for your tank and water parameters, perhaps go to your local fish store or search online and write down the names of the fish that you like the look of. Then perhaps look up a website such as seriouslyfish who do have a half decent fish database where you can find out the compatibility of certain fish species with your water and even with other fish species.

For example you like the look of Buenos Aires tetras (Hyphessobrycon anisitsi), so if you imput that into the seriously fish website and you should get something like this -

Hyphessobrycon anisitsi – Buenos Aires Tetra (Hemigrammus caudovittatus, Hyphessobrycon erythrurus) — Seriously Fish

www.seriouslyfish.com

You then will see all sorts of useful information such as tank size suitibilty at 90cm long (3 foot) by 30cm width which basically means around 80 litres or 20 US gallons, but the length of tank is most important as this will show these little fish do need a bit of swimming room as they are pretty active and perhaps darts fast when spooked, so be sure that your tank size suits the fish choice.

And it also shows you their water hardness 15 - 357ppm which is a very broad range but can be suitable for your water softness which is around 32ppm.

Then check out their behaviour and compatibility with other fish species, some fish do well with a large range of species while others are best on their own such as tiger barbs for example (VERY nippy and territorial) while the buenos aires is nippy at times so choosing the right tank mates is worth some consideration.

Then a good point is to note their natural habitat and whether they can go in a planted tank with live plants, or if they also need floating plants for shade and shelter, some species do best with just rocks and wood and no plants at all, all sorts of different habitats you can set up for the fish species of your choice.

Those are just an example of what to look for when choosing fish stocking for your new tank, its exciting but research is key for a thriving tank with 2 or even 3 species of fish getting along.

 

[imw]

Hi,

On the filter front, you could think about removing it and then run a external filter. Easier when tank is empty, this is what I have done on my Jewel Rio 240.

HTH

 

[chrisnolan]

Hi,

On the filter front, you could think about removing it and then run a external filter. Easier when tank is empty, this is what I have done on my Jewel Rio 240.

HTH

hi, thanks for that, may consider it later once cycling is done, I checked and it is working correctly but I was just a bit concerned about not seeing any ripples on the surface if you know what I mean. I have added a small air-stone in the opposite corner of the tank and I now have movement on the top. Water is still a bit cloudy but I only filled up the tank yesterday so I guess that is to be expected. Just added the ammonia to 3ppm so the fun starts now. This is my first tank so thought it best to go with one that had everything included with it.

 

[Slaphppy7]

hi, thanks for that, may consider it later once cycling is done, I checked and it is working correctly but I was just a bit concerned about not seeing any ripples on the surface if you know what I mean. I have added a small air-stone in the opposite corner of the tank and I now have movement on the top. Water is still a bit cloudy but I only filled up the tank yesterday so I guess that is to be expected. Just added the ammonia to 3ppm so the fun starts now.

Surface agitation is very important, the bubbler will help, but it's beneficial to have a filter that provides it, as well

What's the temp of the tank?