Water Too Acidic, Angel Jerking Mouth

[nwzzz]

Hi, my name is Wasif and I am new to the forum. I started a freshwater tank last september and due to my lack of knowledge of cycling, most of my fishes died. The surviving fishes were an angel(who was the size of a quarter, now the size of my palm), and four gouramis. I added a pleco a month after and the water condition was super. pH 7.0, amm, nitrite: 0, and nitrate going up. So suddenly my gouramis caught a bacteria that seemed to eat away at the skin. I tried erythromycin, the one for fish, which didn't work, and then pimafix. So nothing worked and all four of them died, and my pleco died shortly after. I did a 50% water change and waited for the pH to get to 7.0 again.

Then i slowly started to add fishes and everytime, the water became more acidic before it went back upto 7.0. But I recently added 2 mollies, and 2 catfishes from my local pet store, and the pH won't go to 7.0 no matter how many water changes I do. It's always at 6.0. There is also an infestation of snails from one of the plants I bought from the store. I am using romane lettuce to get rid of them now.

And recently, the angelfish started to jerk it's mouth violently. It also doesn't eat as much as it used to. Whats happening in this tank?

I have two pieces of live wood, and 4 live plants, light gravel about 1" thick. The tank size is 29gallons and is currently housing:
2 mollies,
2 platies,
2 pangasius catfish, and
1 angelfish (size of palm, measuring about 4" from head to edge of tail)

Water conditions are:
pH: 6.0
ammonia: 0.0
nitrite: 0.0
nitrate: less than 5.0

 

[mike_980]

the snail shells might be the source of your problem because id guess they would release calcium and other minerals into the water when they degrade but the first thing you need to do is test your tap water. make sure you stand the tap water for 24 hours before you test it otherwise it will give you a different figure!

in any case changing PH is best left for experts, your fish will adapt to the lower PH in time and will cause them less damage than if you try to change it and shock them

however apparently if your still having problems the best trick to do is to fill a clean sock with coral sand and stuff it into your filter so the water is passing through it

if it was me i wouldnt worry though

 

[Paradise3]

By the way just a quick note. You said you have 2 pangasius catfish? That's going to be a problem as pangasius catfish AKA iridescent shark can reach massive sizes.....

Alessa x.

 

[jacko32]

i doubt the ph being 6.0 is your problem angel fish wont mind it low they like acidic water i would be worried though about the 2 pengasius which can easily reach 1 meter in length and need huge tanks

 

[Paradise3]

I don't think you can ever keep them in tanks because this is what a google search brought to me......

Alessa x.

 

[nwzzz]

haha yea I asked the guys at the pet store and they said they'd buy it back for store credit if they get too large. So I'll leave the water alone then. The angel jerking it's mouth occasionally(i see it about once or twice a day, I sit close to the tank) is getting me worried.

[Edit]: Thx for the help!

 

[Paradise3]

No prob!

Alessa x.

 

[nwzzz]

So one of the platies died and aside from the sharks and angel, everything else is looking pretty bad most of them are on the bottom and the fish that died sunk to the bottom. I think the pH is starting to affect the fish and I hope since the sharks can tolerate a bigger range of pH and so can the angel, they are surviving. And the lettuce seems to be working and I already see a lot less snails in the tank.
What can be causing this pH problem?

 

[Athena]

I really doubt these problems are a result of the slight change in PH as most of the fish you have are quite hardy and can tolerate these sort of changes. There will be another cause for the current sickness in your tank.

Ok, so it's not ammonia/nitrite as you say these levels are at 0.0 (I presume you're using a liquid test kit?).

When your pleco died, did he show any signs of illness beforehand? And what about the other fish that have died - any outward signs of illness. Any clamped fins? Any discoloration/bloating/spots/ulcers/rapid gill movement/flicking/scraping etc?

You've mentioned the mouth jerking of the Angel fish. This could be due to illness or it could just be that common cichlid behaviour they exhibit when either angry or mating (obviously if he's the only angel in the tank it can't be mating so in that case it would be stress/territorial behaviour). Of course I could just be misinterpreting your explanation of "the angelfish started to jerk it's mouth violently". Maybe the angel is gasping rapidly, due to an underlying disease he has.

Can you check again and let us know if the angel is either gasping rapidly/fast gill movement continually, or whether he occasionally gives a little shake of his body along with jerkiness of his mouth (e.g. if you approach the tank, touch the tank, or if he's doing it when other fish approach him).

The more info you can supply the better and easier it is to give suggestions for possible diagnosis/treatment.

Regards - Athena

 

[nwzzz]

My gouramis that died before were fat before they died. I'm not sure if they were bloated but several other fishes also died non-bloated. I, unfortunately wasn't home when my pleco died and the dead fish had been flushed before I could see it. The fishes were discoloring after they died. The gill movement seemed normal but the only constant was that they all stayed on the bottom, hiding in the plants or the wood before they died.

And the angelfish is jerking it's mouth. It's mouth turns into a cylinder, which is what it does to suck in food from the top when I give them flakes. But it extends more than the normal length then he moves his left and right violently as if he's trying to get rid of something from the inside. A mouth ulcer? idk.

Yea, it's not Ick, that's the disease my fishes caught first and I'm all to familiar with it. Luckily, my fishs survived the treatment and hasn't had ick since. But the iridiscents just go up and down the glass all day =/ In several videos, I've also seen small ones do this. So I assume this is normal behavior?

And yes, I am using a liquid API master kit.

 

[jacko32]

usually in my experience when fish swim up and down the glass alot it means theres something not quite right in the water ie ammonia, nitrite or clorine. a pH of 6 i wouldnt be concerned about as long as its stable and not dropping if all your stats are good you could try a dose of general tonic

 

[nwzzz]

what is general tonic? aloe, aquarium salt?

 

[jacko32]

what is general tonic? aloe, aquarium salt?

interpet number 5 general tonic your LFS will stock it

 

[Athena]

Yes, I agree - when fish swim up and down by the glass repetetively, it's a sure sign they are stressed about something. Not normal happy fish behaviour really.

The discolouration after death is normal. If they were discoloured before death, that's not normal. Some fish go a darker, charcoalish shade, or lose their bright colouration and look pale when they are stressed or ill.

The "fat" or bloated gouramis that died are the thing that worries me - they could have had dropsy which is quite common in gouramis (which are anabantoids/labyrinth fish). Did you notice if they had any signs of pineconing (scales sticking out when bloated)?

If that was the case then this could be what's at the root of the problem with your tank.

Fish with dropsy will also appear lethargic and either hang around at the top or sit at the bottom of the tank (which is what you mentioned!), lose their appetite, change of colouration, and of course the bloatedness, although not every fish with dropsy reaches that bloated stage.

Maybe you could do a bit of research into dropsy and see if there are some photos you can look at online to compare against your fish. It's not that easy to treat once the fish do become bloated, though. It's not highly contagious but if other fish are stressed then their immune system will be lowered and this leaves the door open to contract dropsy or other diseases.

If you decide dropsy is the cause of your fish deaths, then you can treat the tank with Octozin or similar dropsy medication and hopefully it will prevent any further deaths.

If you're unsure, it might be best to treat with an anti-bacterial medication as Dropsy is usually caused through a bacterial infection.

Regards, Athena

 

[nwzzz]

I looked into dropsy and it seems like it's that part of the fish that were bloated in each fish though they weren't as large as the ones shown in the picture. But the dead fishes didn't have pineconing. I noticed that when I brought in 2 rosy red barbs after the gouramis died, they got fat very fast. But their activites seemed normal and one died, of what seemed to me of stress of the other chasing it. That fish was slim but the other was very bloated. The fish that died recently had a little large stomach but it wasn't abnormaly large. But the platies and the mollies do seem lethargic. One molly is hanging out at the top and the other two are at the bottom behind the log.
The iridiscents also seemed to have gotten bigger in the stomach area. Is it possible to have dropsy without pineconing?