Two dead Bettas...

[NannaLou]

@QiQi - I‘m looking into the different types of Betta at the moment... I won’t be buying anything without running it past TFF ?
@Slaphppy7 - plants, rocks and a woody root thing - oh, and about 6 stowaway snails yet to be identified....

 

[Slaphppy7]

Get the tank cycled before adding any more fish.

 

[NannaLou]

I’ve just added a black background to the outside of the tank and I’ve managed to get a reasonably clear photo of a teeny-tiny snail ?

 

[Essjay]

That's a physid snail, they have a lot of common names. See the first snail in this thread

Freshwater Snail Species In The Hobby

(Thread rework in progress - please pardon our dust!) Freshwater Snail Species In The Hobby (Two Clea helena assassin snails and a Planorbid ramshorn - photo by CassCats) Index Basic Terminology for Identification Physidae: Bladder Snails and Tadpole Snails Lymnaeidae: Pond Snails...

www.fishforums.net

Once you have fish, the way to keep their numbers under control is to make sure you aren't over feeding the fish.



For now I would concentrate on growing your plants. I can't tell from the photos (not very good at plant ID ) so if you know what they are could you tell us so the plant experts can recommend the right fertiliser.
Then when the tank plants look a lot fuller than in the current photos, they should be able to deal with the ammonia from one betta.


Since the photo of the tank tests appears to show nitrite, can I suggest you test it again to make sure.

 

[QiQi]

Looks like a bladder snail, they breed like crazy, make sure you don't overfeed or you will end up with thousands of them.

 

[Slaphppy7]

Looks like a bladder snail, they breed like crazy, make sure you don't overfeed or you will end up with thousands of them.

I'd dispose of them before that happens...

 

[Visserfrou]

Hello, I have a 25ltr tank specifically for one male Betta.

I’ve tried really hard to become as knowledgable as possible before buying a fish. The tank was running (cycling) for 15 days before adding my first fish. The temperature and water parameters were perfect (the Ph in my area is a little hard, but from reading better than keep trying to change it). After 2 days of what appeared to be happy Betta behaviour, he became lethargic and died on day 4 of ownership (the water parameters were still very good Nitrate not over 5ppm). I was told to leave the tank empty for a week, double check the water parameters and try again. Betta number 2 was happy on Saturday and Sunday and he was dead on Monday morning when I came down.

I’m so sad, that, regardless of my reading, I have done something that has killed two beautiful fish.

So, my first question is any idea what I’m doing wrong. There are no obvious signs of illness or injury.
Secondly, is there any action you would recommend before getting any further fish? (I’m thinking of taking everything out of the tank and scrubbing it with hot water before putting it back - can you clean live plants?)
And finally, should I risk another Betta?

I’m a slightly soppy Pisces and watching them and knowing they were’t happy was breaking my heart...

Any advice will be very welcome, thank you

Hello the worst thing you can do is take everything out and using hot water will destroy any minute bacteria that's started. I am not a professional but have had fish for 30 years. In all the years when setting up a new tank I have used seachem stability which has all the benif

Hello, I have a 25ltr tank specifically for one male Betta.

I’ve tried really hard to become as knowledgable as possible before buying a fish. The tank was running (cycling) for 15 days before adding my first fish. The temperature and water parameters were perfect (the Ph in my area is a little hard, but from reading better than keep trying to change it). After 2 days of what appeared to be happy Betta behaviour, he became lethargic and died on day 4 of ownership (the water parameters were still very good Nitrate not over 5ppm). I was told to leave the tank empty for a week, double check the water parameters and try again. Betta number 2 was happy on Saturday and Sunday and he was dead on Monday morning when I came down.

I’m so sad, that, regardless of my reading, I have done something that has killed two beautiful fish.

So, my first question is any idea what I’m doing wrong. There are no obvious signs of illness or injury.
Secondly, is there any action you would recommend before getting any further fish? (I’m thinking of taking everything out of the tank and scrubbing it with hot water before putting it back - can you clean live plants?)
And finally, should I risk another Betta?

I’m a slightly soppy Pisces and watching them and knowing they were’t happy was breaking my heart...

Any advice will be very welcome, thank you

Hello I hope this is helpful to you I am not a professional, but have had fish for 30 years. I have always used seachem stability for a new set up as it has all the benifical bacteria required you also have to use seachem prime for removing heavy metals. Cycle the tank for two weeks it will be fine to add fish. When you buy your Betta float the bag in your tank for 15 minutes,after that you must add a bit of your tank water to the bag. Do this twice after a period of 15 minutes each time so he can acclimatise, otherwise you can damage his gills. After that you can release him into your tank. It would be a good idea to also use a nitrate remover, I will send you pictures of the products which are manufactured in the U.S.A.

 

[Essjay]

Do you mean that Prime is a nitrate remover? Prime does not remove nitrate, it detoxifies it for ~24 hours, as for ammonia and nitrite.
Stability is a bottled bacteria product.

 

[QiQi]

@Essjay What if Lou cycled the tank and then got a shrimp before a betta, I know the GH is too high for them but it could be a good way to see if there is something wrong after the cycling, At least I know from mine that if there is something wrong they go nuts.

 

[Essjay]

The problem with shrimps is that they are more sensitive than fish. Something that would not cause problems for a betta could kill shrimps. But if NannaLou doesn't mind spending a bit of money on a couple of cherry shrimps and they survive, we would know the water is fine and the problem is the bettas themselves.
Snails are also sensitive to water conditions - or at least the snails we buy are. Pest snails are bomb proof So the pest snails that came on the plants won't be a good test subject.

 

[QiQi]

That was my thought, since they are so sensitive, if they survive then the water is fine for fish

 

[NannaLou]

@Visserfrou - I’m sorry your advice not to clean has come too late... I did that on Tuesday morning ?
I’m also a little bit wary of keep adding “stuff” to the water, I’m happy to wait until I’ve got naturally balanced water than adding something and then potentially adding something else as it’s swung too far the other.

1. The Snails (bladder) leave in and monitor or remove..?
2. I have found TNC fertiliser on Amazon and will get that ordered today.
3. I’m happy to buy shrimps but would rather do that when I know they have a good chance of surviving...if they did survive how would the got on with a Betta?
4. Should I be doing a daily water change (10%) with the tap safe and filter start daily until the nitrates go down?
5. Will another couple of plants help.

 

[QiQi]

The Snails (bladder) leave in and monitor or remove..?

Maybe keep for now, they will help with the cycling too, I would remove them afterwards since they multiply like crazy.

I’m happy to buy shrimps but would rather do that when I know they have a good chance of surviving...if they did survive how would the got on with a Betta?

Add a couple of shrimp after the cycling is done. The betta might or might not bother them, depends on the character of the fish. Even mine that ignores them most of the time, he will still chase them and sometimes bite or eat them (I've seen him doing it) and other times the shrimp will bump on him and he will just ignore them.

Should I be doing a daily water change (10%) with the tap safe and filter start daily until the nitrates go down?

You can get some pure ammonia free of perfumes and additives. Add a few drops (5 drops per 10gallons) till the tank water reaches 5ppm ammonia. Once nitrites start being present reduce the amount of drops approximately to half. Then the nitrites will have similar levels and you keep adding ammonia (the half dose) daily till the ammonia and nitrite levels go back to zero. There is no need to do water changes unless the ammonia and nitrite levels are very high. Once they reach 0, the nitrates should be high, that's when you do a big water change to reduce them as much as possible. In the meantime keep adding the filter starter and it should speed up the process. Always keep an eye on the PH since the bacteria will stop doing their job is it gets too low (lower than 6). When you do that big water change, you stop adding ammonia and you need to add fish in or the bacteria will have nothing to feed from since there will be no waste.

Will another couple of plants help.

I don't think you need more plants at the moment.

 

[QiQi]

I forgot to add that you need to keep your filter running so there is some water surface agitation (always low flow for bettas) since the beneficial bacteria need oxygen.

 

[Essjay]

Add a few drops (5 drops per 10gallons) till the tank water reaches 5ppm ammonia.

For a betta, 1 ppm is plenty. That's all I used when doing a fishless cycle for a betta in a 25 litre tank. Even for a tank with more fish, 3 ppm is more than enough. That's what the fishless cycling method on here recommends.
Adding too much ammonia makes so much nitrite the cycle will stall. The method we use on here restricts the amount of ammonia added so that nitrite can never get high enough to stall the cycle

Cycling Your New Fresh Water Tank: Read This First!

Cycling Your First Fresh Water Tank What is Cycling and Why is it Important? Fish waste, and especially fish breathing, plus uneaten food and other organic matter breaking down in a tank all produce Ammonia. This can quickly become toxic to fish if it is allowed to build up to any measurable...

www.fishforums.net

It used to be thought the bacteria died in 24 hours if they didn't have food but we now know it takes a lot longer than 24 hours.

@NannaLou You can follow the method on here to do a fishless cycle if you buy some ammonia (though that is getting hard to find these days). But I suggest using just 1 ppm ammonia rather than the 3 ppm the method uses. You may find that it doesn't proceed as the method says simply because of the plants taking up ammonia and not turning it into nitrite though.





I'm afraid you are getting some conflicting advice. Some members are saying you need to do a fishless cycle using ammonia while others are saying you just need more plants. The choice is yours - get some ammonia and do a fishless cycling following the method in the link rather than the add ammonia daily method; or get some more floating plants as they are the best art taking up ammonia.