Two dead Bettas...

[Essjay]

Fish sold on Ebay or by any other on-line shop have to be shipped with a specialist courier which does add to the cost. But fish are shipped from the wholesaler to the shop in exactly the same way. It's the cost that's the off putting thing.

Snails and shrimps are allowed by Royal Mail and they are cheaper.

 

[NannaLou]

Good morning,

I’ve done a water test this morning and the Ph results are as expected and the ammonia and nitrites at zero. All good so far!
The nitrates, however, are not ok. Depending on how you look at the test tube it could be anything between 10 ppm and about 80 ppm!
I did an almost total water change yesterday, and took out a second filter. The second filter was the one with a totally enclosed cartridge that needed replacing monthly (I worried that I would be throwing away all the BB each month). The only filter in the tank now is the Eheim and is has been running for 9 days.

My degree is in playdoh (early years education - my brother-in- law has a Law degree ?) not chemistry...so I’m not sure where the nitrates have come from if the ammonia > nitrite > nitrate cycle starts with ammonia and there is none..??

Anyway, clearly not ready for another fish of any type I would say. Another water change to dilute the nitrates? Any other options?

In reply to the messages I dozed through yesterday evening, no candles or air fresheners. No spray polish when the fish were in the tanks, but I will just damp wipe that end of the lounge moving forward.

 

[NannaLou]

I’ve just tested the water straight from the tap...
The Ph levels are lower from the tap than in the tank..?
No ammonia or nitrites, but about 10 ppm of nitrates...
What is this all about?

 

[Essjay]

Tap levels:

pH - this is often different in freshly run tap water and water that's been allowed to stand. In hard water areas, water companies often add something to lower pH to prevent limescale build up in their pipes; in soft water areas they often add something to raise the pH so the acidity doesn't corrode their pipes. These added things gas off when water is allowed to stand and the pH changes.
You have just tested some water straight out of the tap, but the water in the tank has been standing so they are likely to be different. What we always advise is to run a glass of cold water and test the pH immediately. Then leave the glass of water to stand overnight and test the pH again next day. You will probably find the two are different, and the test on water that has stood will be closer to the tank pH.
Sometimes tank water can be different from both tap water tests. Things like coral or limestone can raise the pH - this can be lumps of coral or limestone decor or sand/gravel made from crushed limestone/coral.
In soft water, things like wood in the tank can lower pH, though this is less likely in hard water like yours.

Ammonia and nitrite - it is possible to have these in tap water. Legislation allows up to 0.5 ppm ammonia and 0.1 ppm nitrite in drinking water. Readings for these usually occur when the water company uses chloramine rather than chlorine to disinfect the water. Chloramine is a chlorine and an ammonia joined together, and our test kits pick up the ammonia half of the chloramine.

Nitrate - legislation allows up to 50 ppm in drinking water. High levels occur where the water source (reservoir, river) is in an agricultural area and the nitrate fertiliser from the crops gets washed into the river/reservoir. At 10 ppm, yours is quite low compared to a lot of places in the UK.
When looking at the tank nitrate, you have to subtract the tap nitrate to find out how much of the nitrate is being made in the tank.
Nitrate is the least accurate of all our tests. Liquid nitrate testers say to shake one of the bottles very well before using it. This because one of the chemicals in that bottle settles out on the bottom and the shaking is to mix it thoroughly back in the liquid. The result will be inaccurate if the bottle isn't shaken enough. We usually say it needs to be shaken until your arm is about to fall off

 

[Lajos_Detari]

What is the condition of your Bettas when you first bought them?
How did the fish store keep them?
Were they in small container with yellowish water?
Were they active when they were at the fish store?

Some Bettas might had been kept in bad condition for a long time when you bought them.
Some even have diseases as the fish storekeeper often feed them with tubifex worms.

 

[NannaLou]

@Essjay, it’s all very complicated ?. Because I have very poor concept of time I, very sadly, set a timer for the 30 second bottle shake and the 1 minute shake the test tube with both lots of chemicals...it’s as accurate as I can do it.

@Lajos_Detari, the fish looked good, the first one wasn’t very active but he was a double dragon tail (?) and had loads of fin/tail and they said he wouldn’t be very active because of the weight of them. The second one was in with lots of little stripy fish and one of those kept trying to nip his tail, but the shopkeeper said they weren’t a nippy fish and he’d keep an eye on it.
The tanks in the shop looked to be very clean, with clear water...the tank next door might have had a couple of dead fish...now I’m wondering... I expect the water would have circulated around all of the tanks in that block...

It‘s become a very steep learning curve and expensive both financially and with two lives ?.

 

[Essjay]

Most shops have central filter systems - depending how many tanks there are, either all the tanks on one system or banks of tanks on separate systems. This does mean that if fish in one tank are sick, the bug is carried to all the tanks on the same system. In theory they should have a UV steriliser to kill bugs, but they may or may not maintain that properly.



Have you given any though to my suggestion of a few male endlers instead?

 

[Essjay]

Because I have very poor concept of time I, very sadly, set a timer for the 30 second bottle shake and the 1 minute shake the test tube with both lots of chemicals...it’s as accurate as I can do it.

Our kitchen clock has a second hand, so I use that to time the tests

 

[NannaLou]

@Essjay, I’m still pondering that.... I have my heart set on a Betta really ...

 

[QiQi]

You could mix RO with tap water to make it softer, my area has very high gh too, so I remineralise RO, the stores around my area all use treated tap water and the bettas are ok and from what I read bettas don't have a huge issue with the gh(soft water is better though), the only negative I found was that their fins curl a bit, but again I didn't find any negatives on that matter either.
The long fin dragonscale double tail sounds like there might have been some over breeding that possibly caused some genetic issues and with a bit of stress maybe he couldn't handle it.
I also found many people saying online that breeders feed them so much when they are young to grow fast and sell them that this causes problems with their livers.
That's all from many hours of research I did online, so I don't know how accurate all this is, since I rescued mine and I wanted to learn as much as possible in order to take care of him.

 

[NannaLou]

@QiQi - thank you for sharing, all information is being read and hopefully I’ll have better success with a different source...

 

[Slaphppy7]

Good morning,

I’ve done a water test this morning and the Ph results are as expected and the ammonia and nitrites at zero. All good so far!
The nitrates, however, are not ok. Depending on how you look at the test tube it could be anything between 10 ppm and about 80 ppm!
I did an almost total water change yesterday, and took out a second filter. The second filter was the one with a totally enclosed cartridge that needed replacing monthly (I worried that I would be throwing away all the BB each month). The only filter in the tank now is the Eheim and is has been running for 9 days.

My degree is in playdoh (early years education - my brother-in- law has a Law degree ?) not chemistry...so I’m not sure where the nitrates have come from if the ammonia > nitrite > nitrate cycle starts with ammonia and there is none..??

Anyway, clearly not ready for another fish of any type I would say. Another water change to dilute the nitrates? Any other options?

In reply to the messages I dozed through yesterday evening, no candles or air fresheners. No spray polish when the fish were in the tanks, but I will just damp wipe that end of the lounge moving forward.View attachment 133793View attachment 133792

Not only are your trAtes a little high, but I'm seeing trItes, as well = tank not cycled

 

[NannaLou]

@Slaphppy7, yes, looking back at the photo it’s definitely looking a bit purple..it wasn’t in “real life”.

I need to go back and check the info I was given yesterday about what type of cycle I need ...

 

[QiQi]

Maybe go for a plakat betta next time? I think they are not as overbred as the long finned ones yet.

 

[Slaphppy7]

@Slaphppy7, yes, looking back at the photo it’s definitely looking a bit purple..it wasn’t in “real life”.

I need to go back and check the info I was given yesterday about what type of cycle I need ...

What's in the tank now?