Trouble Breeding Your Fish?

[vanalisa]

It is difficult to sort out all the experts on this forum...so I will just give up.

Don't give up

 

[vanalisa]

I've had some unintentional minor success with breeding WCMM, the regular kind.

When I mean minimal I mean minimal. I got I think 8 or 9 and I was able to get about the same amount of offspring.
After those grew out and matured I was able to get another 6 or 7.
But after that it was kind of strange the females would look gravid but would stay that way.
Conditions were the same so I'm not really sure what happened.

I'm not implying that I did everything right but I do know that the females ended up getting what I believe to be septicemia. After treating them with two different medications,
I ended up euthanizing five females, unfortunately. I lost a couple males along the way and now have three males.

After talking to a few people I learned maybe it had to do with the fact that all of the original fish were siblings. I was glad they told me that because when I see waves of fish come in and there are not very many I take note.

I'm also aware of that I could have done, or failed to do something to affected the females. Like I said everything was the same and the males seem to be interested in the females but not vice versa.

Now I'm just wondering what the heck?

I agree one hundred percent that the practices described here are unconscionable!

I have a pretty good local fish store and they've had Threadfin Rainbow for going on about 9 months now but there are never very many. I'm pretty sure that the ones I see now are most likely offsprings of the ones I saw a while ago. My goal is not to breed them although that's always great, but I would like to have some someday when I get a bigger tank.

Regardless, I don't know what to say about giving up on breeding your fish but certainly don't give up on the forum

 

[Colin_T]

When I mean minimal I mean minimal. I got I think 8 or 9 and I was able to get about the same amount of offspring.
After those grew out and matured I was able to get another 6 or 7.
But after that it was kind of strange the females would look gravid but would stay that way.

Egg bound from being kept in warm water all the time. It happens to danios and barbs too.

 

[vanalisa]

Egg bound from being kept in warm water all the time. It happens to danios and barbs too.

what would that end up looking like, would they would still look gravid, but with...dare I suggest... reddish stretch marks?

 

[GaryE]

Here's another possibility - "meteor minnows" come and go. They're a boom and bust form - and I wonder if maybe the inbreeding involved could make them infertile. I've read discussions from experienced breeders about how they seem to vanish at times, and be restarted. At one point they weren't bred for decades as the mutation had died out. I believe they had to start all over again when the longfin mutation happened again. But longfins can carry a lot of genetic problems as they are a growth malfunction.

As for my threadfin rainbow hunt, it's not as easy as contacting Gary Lange. He's a great guy, but there's a border between us, and a pandemic. We can trade fish on Zoom...

 

[Colin_T]

As for my threadfin rainbow hunt, it's not as easy as contacting Gary Lange. He's a great guy, but there's a border between us, and a pandemic. We can trade fish on Zoom...

Get rainbowfish eggs sent thru the post.

 

[GaryE]

Get rainbowfish eggs sent thru the post.

Pre-pandemic, rainbow eggs could be like killie eggs - mailed. With the pandemic slowdowns, even 14 day incubating Aphyosemion eggs have been at risk, and quicker hatching rainbows will have to wait for better times. Add the fact it's -25 out there, and it is impossible, for a few months.
Threadfins are one of only half a dozen species I'd be happy buying as farmed fish. I tend to avoid regular store fish because of the disease issues, and go for wild caughts. I'd rather support a fisherman in Cameroon or Colombia than a shareholder in Singapore. But some species just can't be had any other way, and threadfin rainbows are beauties I'd like to breed and work with in retirement, the way @OldFishKeeper wants the white clouds.

 

[GaryE]

There is a side to our hobby that can be frustrating. I think it shows when you talk to a wholesaler about ordering a fish, and you're asked how many "units" you want. You have the commodity side, along with the fish as ornaments side that doesn't always work with the fish as things to learn from, or the interests of breeders who want to enjoy a fish for a long time.

 

[OldFishKeeper]

Egg bound from being kept in warm water all the time. It happens to danios and barbs too.

Mine never got any eggs to be "bound"!

what would that end up looking like, would they would still look gravid, but with...dare I suggest... reddish stretch marks?

Now, that is funny!

 

[GuppyBreeder180604]

I have, for decades, wanted to breed Meteor Minnows aka, Long Finned White Clouds. With retirement combined with COVID, I had time to pursue this over the past two years.

I googled and found a seller with beautiful fish. I ordered and paid shipping for 10 of these beauties. After bringing them to maturity and giving them ideal conditions, they looked great but had no interest in spawning.

My luck has always been in question so, thinking they were all males (what are the chances?), I order ten more from the same supplier. Same thing!

I researched this problem and found that "some" breeders chemically sterilize their fish before selling to them. This is done to prevent competition.

Personally, I find this practice unconscionable. Apparently it is not illegal but I am all for making these breeders disclose their practice before us hobbyists get less than what we paid for. In fact, I am prepared to pay more for fish that I intend to breed.

Where would you stand on this?

that is so cruel to the fish in my opinion, and also it does feel like a scam, I have never had that happen to me but I would be really angry if I discovered that the fish I bought were messed with just because some dumb person doesn't want to see another person breeding fish, sounds to me like they are trying to have a local monopoly on those fish which is at least where I live highly illegal, any sort of monopoly or intent for one of any form of service/product/thing in general can be a hefty fine if not some prison time

 

[OldFishKeeper]

that is so cruel to the fish in my opinion, and also it does feel like a scam, I have never had that happen to me but I would be really angry if I discovered that the fish I bought were messed with just because some dumb person doesn't want to see another person breeding fish, sounds to me like they are trying to have a local monopoly on those fish which is at least where I live highly illegal, any sort of monopoly or intent for one of any form of service/product/thing in general can be a hefty fine if not some prison time

In my experience and investigations, the breeders doing this are, at this point, off-shore so, good luck with making them accountable. It is the on-shore importers and suppliers to internet sales and local fish shops that have no regard for the hobby. If these "manipulated" fish look great and sell quickly, that is all that is important to them.

Strangely enough, the website that sold me these fish are well known but do not offer any means to contact them or provide reviews.

I have a Florida breeder and supplier who acknowledged this sham and promises to only supply "normal" fish. So far, they have fulfilled this promise and will receive my future business.

Someone recently responded saying that it is expensive to sterilize fish. I guess they haven't investigated how easy it is to "triploid" fish. All it takes is a drastic change in temperature while the eggs are developing. This stops the sexing process and results in fish that are neither male or female. The result is triploid fish with all the characteristics of normal fish, including color, with a rapid growth rate due to them not having to develop sex organs. Google "triploid trout".

 

[GuppyBreeder180604]

If these "manipulated" fish look great and sell quickly, that is all that is important to them.

sadly I have seen that too, people in stores and importers who as you say don't care about the animals or the people as long as they can get their sweet money

I have a Florida breeder and supplier who acknowledged this sham and promises to only supply "normal" fish. So far, they have fulfilled this promise and will receive my future business.

yeah, stick with him if you have that certainty that the fish are not being manipulated.

Someone recently responded saying that it is expensive to sterilize fish. I guess they haven't investigated how easy it is to "triploid" fish. All it takes is a drastic change in temperature while the eggs are developing. This stops the sexing process and results in fish that are neither male or female. The result is triploid fish with all the characteristics of normal fish, including color, with a rapid growth rate due to them not having to develop sex organs. Google "triploid trout"

I have seen it! mainly when people are stocking private ponds with invasive species, they buy genderless fish so that if they escape the pond they cant reproduce and cause problems on native ecosystems

 

[vanalisa]

Gary Lange

 

[Sgooosh]

I have, for decades, wanted to breed Meteor Minnows aka, Long Finned White Clouds. With retirement combined with COVID, I had time to pursue this over the past two years.

I googled and found a seller with beautiful fish. I ordered and paid shipping for 10 of these beauties. After bringing them to maturity and giving them ideal conditions, they looked great but had no interest in spawning.

My luck has always been in question so, thinking they were all males (what are the chances?), I order ten more from the same supplier. Same thing!

I researched this problem and found that "some" breeders chemically sterilize their fish before selling to them. This is done to prevent competition.

Personally, I find this practice unconscionable. Apparently it is not illegal but I am all for making these breeders disclose their practice before us hobbyists get less than what we paid for. In fact, I am prepared to pay more for fish that I intend to breed.

Where would you stand on this?

i think its unethical to do that to something so fragile such as a fish
also fish babies r cute and tbh it gives people a greater sense of pride when they say that they have successfully bred and grew baby fish LOL

 

[Sgooosh]

wow i want to make "duckweed fish"
basically
they are small fish that give birth to clones of themselves every day
similar to duckweed
also... similar to exponential guppy