Too Slow!

[fish_master]

Omg are u people stupid there is nothing wrong with it its fine!! dudes there is alot worse stuff u should be worrying about chillaxe its all good i feed fish to my axoltols often and they dont even notice that they are prey until they get snapped up my god serialy ####

 

[fish_master]

Also it is pointless to say you are feeding him guppys because its a natural turtle diet thing, guppys are not found in RES habitat full stop, so you shouldn't be feeding them to the turtle if you believe in and truly follow all of that natural diet stuff.

My main point is that it is not nesarsary to put lots of guppys in the turtles tank which take all day long for the turtle to catch (causing the guppys a considerable amount of stress). According to the one of the main RES forums, feeder fish be fed in moderate/limited usage amounts in small portions;


I'm sure you RES likes feeder fish, but he is a pet and you are feeding him animals which are also essentially pets/domesticated animals. IMHO You should just show more responsability and concern over these delicate matters like the subject of deliberatley feeding live (intelligent) animals to other live (intelligent) animals.

There would be other fish where they are from that they would eat but guppies are just easy to get and stupid pointless fish top keep

she said she wouldnt feed anymore for a few months or so

guppies intelligent LMFAO!!!

 

[Tokis-Phoenix]

yea but people are mad shes using guppies, but its no better then using any other fish except some people like guppies,, there talkin about its unmoral but i dont see how using a different fish is any more moral, just that some people like/keep guppies... well some dont... some people keep crayfish, some eat them... no difference except the turtles doin the eating,... This is rediculous and ur argument didnt proove anthing... now im stuck repeating myself cuz u didnt read what i wrote... o how fun.

Murph

NO, murphy, people are not getting mad at her using guppys as feeder fish and nor am i, you seem to have deliberately have missed the point in my posts, even though i have spelt it out in black and white.

For your benefet though, my point was that it was unesarsary to stick 3-4 guppys in the tank at once which took all day for the RES to catch and eat, which caused the guppys a considerable amount of stress. It does not take much effort at all to just put one guppy in the tank in one day which can be killed and eaten quickly.

There would be other fish where they are from that they would eat but guppies are just easy to get and stupid pointless fish top keep

she said she wouldnt feed anymore for a few months or so

guppies intelligent LMFAO!!!

I'm sorry but that is just downright insulting- guppys are not "stupid pointless fish to keep", by saying such a thing you are obviously insulting those who are passionate about keeping such fish and spend money on keeping them well, and there are many people at that here who do so.

You are obviously the ignorant one, because if you had actually kept these fish and appreciated them and looked after them properly, you woudl realise that they are good fish, and should be treated with as mcuh care and respect as any other fish.

Guppys are at the heart of many scientific studies and many groundbreaking discoveries have been made with them, here are a few news articles on them to name a few;

http/news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/somerset/4132017.stm

http/news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/890477.stm

http/news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/north_west/5060694.stm

http/news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/3009170.stm


Care to say they are stupid pointless fish now again? If it wasn't for guppys and the discoveries that have been made about them, fish in general would not be as much credited as the complex intelligent animals that they currently are considered.

Its because of people like you that fish end up getting mistreated, because people start viewing certain types of fish as pointless and stupid and so not worthy of respect and care etc .

 

[fish_master]

Perhaps they are being used for reaserch because they are seen to be an dispensable fish and easy to obtain not expensive i mean they use mice and rats alot dont they ?

and just because i dont like guppies dosnt make me a irresponsible fish keeper at all i just find guppies very boring and pointless to keep

 

[Tokis-Phoenix]

Perhaps they are being used for reaserch because they are seen to be an dispensable fish and easy to obtain not expensive i mean they use mice and rats alot dont they ?

and just because i dont like guppies dosnt make me a irresponsible fish keeper at all i just find guppies very boring and pointless to keep

Mice and rats aren't primarily used because they are dipensable, the reasons why such rodents are used depends on the research they are being used for (in the case of genetics, its because mice and rats breed and mature quickly etc for example). But this is a whole nother discussion- lets stick to the one at hand.


The studies done on guppys have shown them to be complex and intelligent little fish. I see you have changed from saying they are "stupid and pointless" to "boring and pointless". Well "boring" is just your personal taste, i have nothing against people finding some fish more interesting to keep than others. But "pointless"? Do you not appreiciate that there are those that do not find these fish pointless and spend a great deal of money and time caring for these fish and would feel insulted by what you are saying? How would you feel if i laughed in your face (as you put it "LMFAO!!!"), and said that every fish you kept was stupid or boring and pointless?
If you say such things just about the fish, it makes people think what you think about those who keep the fish. Such comments can thus easily lead to wars starting on threads. IMHO Either you are knowingly likely personally insulting people, or you don't about being more tactful in expressing your opinions when it comes to stuff like this etc.


The way you phrased your post strongly indicates that you do not care in the slightest what happens to the guppys, if you didn't want to appear this way, how else did you think what you said would be interperated?
The fact of the matter is that you do place lower value on certain fish like guppys and thus lower concern and respect for them, i never said you were "irresponsable", i just said its because of people like you doing stuff like this, that certain fish end up getting very poorly treated in the hobby because people place little personal value on them etc.

Guppy or prize Discus, all fish should deserve the same basic care and respect as each other.
I don't care if someone was feeding arrowana's or anglefish or guppys etc to a predatory animal, the only main things i would care about would be the level of stress caused to the fish before it was eaten by the predatory animal, and whether it was a healthy for the predatory animal in question to be eating etc.

 

[znk]

Perhaps they are being used for reaserch because they are seen to be an dispensable fish and easy to obtain not expensive i mean they use mice and rats alot dont they ?

and just because i dont like guppies dosnt make me a irresponsible fish keeper at all i just find guppies very boring and pointless to keep

You're right none of what said in that post dosent make you irresponsible.

What would make it look irresponssible is you throwing a bunch of them in a tank with a turtle and giving and giving the following reply to those who showed concern.

...
i dont care about the little guppies

I DONT CARE

edit: I HATE GUPPIES

You throw more guppies than the turtle can eat at once.
People show concern.
You reply that you dont care because you hate guppies.

And you wonder why people would think you're irresponsible? There were so many more mature responses that would have stopped the debate right there.

 

[Lhutch]

i like wall-e,foodchain needs to be takin into account

 

[murphyk32]

this is hularious... really totally the funniest thing ive ever seen... im not even starting again ive had enough of this BS...

pce out people.. have a gd life... maye ull relise someday...

just maybe.

Murph

 

[Tokis-Phoenix]

i like wall-e,foodchain needs to be takin into account

And no one's saying the food chain shouldn't be taken into consideration.

However, in the RES's natural habitat fish have the oppotunity to swim away and escape turtles, but this cannot happen in an aquarium. So when someone puts in more fish than the RES is willing to eat to satisfy its hunger imediately, it just turns into a cruel game between the turtle and the guppys and the guppys end up getting half-heartedly chased around all day long by the turtle, which as much as the turtle might enjoy its guppy toys, is in no way fair nor natural for the guppys, and by the keeper of the turtle doing this, they are putting the fish under a lot of unesarsary stress.

As i've said before, it takes little effort to feed say 4guppys to the turtle with only 1 of them being fed to the turtle a day, than to chuck the whole lot in its tank in just one day. The difference is that the guppys which are only fed one a day to the turtle will all get caught and eaten very quickly, while the guppys which are dumped all at once will have to suffer a whole day of terrified stress before they are put out of their misery by the turtle because it is not hungry enough to eat them all at once.


What do you disagree with about what i am trying to get across with this?

this is hularious... really totally the funniest thing ive ever seen... im not even starting again ive had enough of this BS...

pce out people.. have a gd life... maye ull relise someday...

just maybe.

Murph

Whats hilarious? You find the subject of feeding fish to predatory animals amusing, hmm?

You got yourself into this debate, and you don't have to stay. However i will say you will certainly gain a lot more respect from me (and others) if you stay to finish what you have started and defend your opinions with logical reasoning etc. Sure there's nothing wrong with personal opinions, but just because they are personal opinions does not mean people will not judge you for them or take them light-heartedly etc.
I raised some points with you, you can stay to defend your opinions and tell me why i am wrong, or you can opt out of this serious debate and just stick to the more comfortable and light hearted threads on this forum if you want, either way, its no great concern of mine what you do...I'm just giving you a straightforward chance here to take back your decision to leave this debate and your opinions undefended, that is all.

My life is good and peaceful regardless about what you say in this thread. Sorry if you expected this to be a less serious thread and i appologise if i can be a bit on the offence sometimes- i'm just defending my opinions on a subject which i feel strongly about.

 

[murphyk32]

I have nothing against ur oppinions or u being aggressive about them tokis, nor do i have any problem with this being a "serious" thread, nor with u defending yourself, but i think u need to read what i wrote that first time, and carefully cuz it was prolly worded badly, and maybe ull see my side, maybe u wont, iunno...
i dont care really... i gotta say i did, but im not gunna try anymore because it just gets me worked up, it gets me going, and it ends up being useless anyways. Im sorry i refuse to do this all over again.

now maybe ill be back someday, maybe and prolly i wont, i respect what u people are doing helping others, but sometimes it gets outta hand when they believe in doing something differently then u do, WHETHER OR NOT U OR THEM IS RIGHT, sometimes u gotta relise that they arent changing to ur way, even if they should, and u can try to help them or not bother. The thing that always gets me going is how u guys react to it, and tear them apart. I have seen many people warn others about well ur prolly gnna get ripped apart for this and this... i seen this 3 times recently, basically just dont post if it isnt helping them, and NO tellin them ur ways better or their ways wrong 15 million times and tearin them up isnt help, tho everybody here seems to think so, but hey o well part of life eh,..

well no im not gunna defend my point here, ill say this, i believe u have valid points and my side has valid points. its clear what i think, and there isnt a thing in the world u can say to change it (my point about y u guys shouldnt post if it is just to criticise or attempt to make people think like u do), so i might be around once and a while, but prolly not. im prolly done with this forum, id love to have seen it before cuz from what ive heard it was nice but now its just fighting and arguing.

P.S. just a note to everybody, most people dont come on here to be in or listen to a debate, specially if it is a topic they want to post in but its pointless cuz the "debate" (argument) is happening.

 

[znk]

I have nothing against ur oppinions or u being aggressive about them tokis, nor do i have any problem with this being a "serious" thread, nor with u defending yourself, but i think u need to read what i wrote that first time, and carefully cuz it was prolly worded badly, and maybe ull see my side, maybe u wont, iunno...
i dont care really... i gotta say i did, but im not gunna try anymore because it just gets me worked up, it gets me going, and it ends up being useless anyways. Im sorry i refuse to do this all over again.

now maybe ill be back someday, maybe and prolly i wont, i respect what u people are doing helping others, but sometimes it gets outta hand when they believe in doing something differently then u do, WHETHER OR NOT U OR THEM IS RIGHT, sometimes u gotta relise that they arent changing to ur way, even if they should, and u can try to help them or not bother. The thing that always gets me going is how u guys react to it, and tear them apart. I have seen many people warn others about well ur prolly gnna get ripped apart for this and this... i seen this 3 times recently, basically just dont post if it isnt helping them, and NO tellin them ur ways better or their ways wrong 15 million times and tearin them up isnt help, tho everybody here seems to think so, but hey o well part of life eh,..

well no im not gunna defend my point here, ill say this, i believe u have valid points and my side has valid points. its clear what i think, and there isnt a thing in the world u can say to change it (my point about y u guys shouldnt post if it is just to criticise or attempt to make people think like u do), so i might be around once and a while, but prolly not. im prolly done with this forum, id love to have seen it before cuz from what ive heard it was nice but now its just fighting and arguing.

P.S. just a note to everybody, most people dont come on here to be in or listen to a debate, specially if it is a topic they want to post in but its pointless cuz the "debate" (argument) is happening.

I'm still trying to figure this out.
What's wrong with the position of saying there is nothing wrong with feeding feeder fish bug just do it responsibly?
Anyway or angle I look at it I dont see what's wrong or what's difficult with that? Throwing in just 1 feeder fish instead of 4 doesnt sound to difficult to me. But apparently that means someone is being persecuted or something.

 

[murphyk32]

anybody ever consider that sometimes its just the way you say things or the amount of times its said?

 

[Zeoth]

i like wall-e,foodchain needs to be takin into account

And no one's saying the food chain shouldn't be taken into consideration.

However, in the RES's natural habitat fish have the oppotunity to swim away and escape turtles, but this cannot happen in an aquarium. So when someone puts in more fish than the RES is willing to eat to satisfy its hunger imediately, it just turns into a cruel game between the turtle and the guppys and the guppys end up getting half-heartedly chased around all day long by the turtle, which as much as the turtle might enjoy its guppy toys, is in no way fair nor natural for the guppys, and by the keeper of the turtle doing this, they are putting the fish under a lot of unesarsary stress.

As i've said before, it takes little effort to feed say 4guppys to the turtle with only 1 of them being fed to the turtle a day, than to chuck the whole lot in its tank in just one day. The difference is that the guppys which are only fed one a day to the turtle will all get caught and eaten very quickly, while the guppys which are dumped all at once will have to suffer a whole day of terrified stress before they are put out of their misery by the turtle because it is not hungry enough to eat them all at once.


What do you disagree with about what i am trying to get across with this?

this is hularious... really totally the funniest thing ive ever seen... im not even starting again ive had enough of this BS...

pce out people.. have a gd life... maye ull relise someday...

just maybe.

Murph

Whats hilarious? You find the subject of feeding fish to predatory animals amusing, hmm?

You got yourself into this debate, and you don't have to stay. However i will say you will certainly gain a lot more respect from me (and others) if you stay to finish what you have started and defend your opinions with logical reasoning etc. Sure there's nothing wrong with personal opinions, but just because they are personal opinions does not mean people will not judge you for them or take them light-heartedly etc.
I raised some points with you, you can stay to defend your opinions and tell me why i am wrong, or you can opt out of this serious debate and just stick to the more comfortable and light hearted threads on this forum if you want, either way, its no great concern of mine what you do...I'm just giving you a straightforward chance here to take back your decision to leave this debate and your opinions undefended, that is all.

My life is good and peaceful regardless about what you say in this thread. Sorry if you expected this to be a less serious thread and i appologise if i can be a bit on the offence sometimes- i'm just defending my opinions on a subject which i feel strongly about.

After reading through this debate/argument I am proud to say that I finally understand what your saying here. Except one thing, Tokis I don't quite understand what you think about feeding live organisms to predetory animals.

EDIT: roseK how would you feel if I told you that I buy turtles and feed them to my prianah aquarium, where they get torn limb from limb, and they still don't die. You never know...it can be true.........


By the way I like Livebearers, escpecially Guppies...

 

[murphyk32]

i like wall-e,foodchain needs to be takin into account

And no one's saying the food chain shouldn't be taken into consideration.

However, in the RES's natural habitat fish have the oppotunity to swim away and escape turtles, but this cannot happen in an aquarium. So when someone puts in more fish than the RES is willing to eat to satisfy its hunger imediately, it just turns into a cruel game between the turtle and the guppys and the guppys end up getting half-heartedly chased around all day long by the turtle, which as much as the turtle might enjoy its guppy toys, is in no way fair nor natural for the guppys, and by the keeper of the turtle doing this, they are putting the fish under a lot of unesarsary stress.

As i've said before, it takes little effort to feed say 4guppys to the turtle with only 1 of them being fed to the turtle a day, than to chuck the whole lot in its tank in just one day. The difference is that the guppys which are only fed one a day to the turtle will all get caught and eaten very quickly, while the guppys which are dumped all at once will have to suffer a whole day of terrified stress before they are put out of their misery by the turtle because it is not hungry enough to eat them all at once.


What do you disagree with about what i am trying to get across with this?

this is hularious... really totally the funniest thing ive ever seen... im not even starting again ive had enough of this BS...

pce out people.. have a gd life... maye ull relise someday...

just maybe.

Murph

Whats hilarious? You find the subject of feeding fish to predatory animals amusing, hmm?

You got yourself into this debate, and you don't have to stay. However i will say you will certainly gain a lot more respect from me (and others) if you stay to finish what you have started and defend your opinions with logical reasoning etc. Sure there's nothing wrong with personal opinions, but just because they are personal opinions does not mean people will not judge you for them or take them light-heartedly etc.
I raised some points with you, you can stay to defend your opinions and tell me why i am wrong, or you can opt out of this serious debate and just stick to the more comfortable and light hearted threads on this forum if you want, either way, its no great concern of mine what you do...I'm just giving you a straightforward chance here to take back your decision to leave this debate and your opinions undefended, that is all.

My life is good and peaceful regardless about what you say in this thread. Sorry if you expected this to be a less serious thread and i appologise if i can be a bit on the offence sometimes- i'm just defending my opinions on a subject which i feel strongly about.

After reading through this debate/argument I am proud to say that I finally understand what your saying here. Except one thing, Tokis I don't quite understand what you think about feeding live organisms to predetory animals.

EDIT: roseK how would you feel if I told you that I buy turtles and feed them to my prianah aquarium, where they get torn limb from limb, and they still don't die. You never know...it can be true.........


By the way I like Livebearers, escpecially Guppies...

prooving once again that for the most part, though denied many times, this is all about guppies, and not about the morals, the morals seems to be the secondary thing here... man i gotta stop checking this, im done now,,, its stupid,,

 

[fish_master]

Have any of you people actually seen them eat because they sure don't rip them up its a fast snap!!