Too Much Ammonia? Fishless Cycling.....

[tauketula]

Hi all. I am currently cycling my 20g tank with fish. Didn't know about fishless cycling at the time. However, I have done a lot of research to keep my fish healthy. Currently, my ammonia = 0 and my nitrites = 0.5 (edited put decimal in wrong place). I am doing water changes every other day to keep the nitrite down until I see nitrates. I have the freshwater master test kit.

Now my question.... I am currently cycling a 55g, fishless. I added ammonia but I guess I added too much. It has been @ 8.0 for ammonia since for the last 5 days. I did a 20% water change to lower the ammonia but it is still @ 8.0. Will this lower itself over time or should I do another water change? Also, is there any kind of algae eaters that can exist in a coldwater environment with goldfish? Thanks.

 

[WILDER]

http/www.badmanstropicalfish.com/articles/article14.html

 

[fryguy]

I am currently cycling a 55g, fishless. I added ammonia but I guess I added too much. It has been @ 8.0 for ammonia since for the last 5 days. I did a 20% water change to lower the ammonia but it is still @ 8.0. Will this lower itself over time or should I do another water change? Also, is there any kind of algae eaters that can exist in a coldwater environment with goldfish? Thanks.

It is my understanding that too much ammonia can be bad. Check out the article on fishless cycling, by Dr. Chris Cow, especially the "fishless cycling revisited" article, which discusses the issue of too much ammonia.

Fishless cycling, by Dr. Chris Cow

Fishless cycling revisted, by Dr. Chris Cow

 

[tauketula]

Thanks Fryguy. This is exactly the info that I needed. Especially the "revisited" article.

 

[tauketula]

Also, can anyone answer my other question. Can any algae eaters live in coldwater with a goldfish? Thanks.

 

[rdd1952]

The main problem I have with Dr. Cow's methods is that he says to add gravel from an established tank. That will supposedly seed the tank although I'm not convinced there are enough bacteria in the gravel (other than a tank with UGF) to matter. But considering there is, this will speed the process and be able to handle all the ammonia he says to add. Unfortunately, most people don't have access to the bacteria to seed the tank. His daily addition of more and more ammonia will make a fishless cycle take forever.

One thing that I have always had trouble understanding about his methods is that he clearly states that too much can be bad yet he still says to add enough ammonia to raise the level to about 5 ppm and then add that amount daily until the nitrite spikes. If you have no way to seed the tank, it will be a minimum of 3 days before there are ANY bacteria present to begin processing the ammonia. By that time your ammonia reading is around 15 ppm, which to me is way too high. By the 5th day, I can see the ammonia being over 20 ppm. And when that does get processed, the nitrite will probably spike in the neighborhood of 30 ppm since you are adding more every day in the form of more ammonia.

I am not a believer in the "add daily" method unless you are cycling for a super heavy bio load for fish like plecos, oscars, etc. I still prefer the "add and wait" method. It has worked well for me so far.

Edit:

Also, can anyone answer my other question. Can any algae eaters live in coldwater with a goldfish? Thanks.

I have read that plecos are fine in coldwater tanks but don't have any personal experience with them.

 

[modernhamlet]

The main problem I have with Dr. Cow's methods is that he says to add gravel from an established tank. That will supposedly seed the tank although I'm not convinced there are enough bacteria in the gravel (other than a tank with UGF) to matter. But considering there is, this will speed the process and be able to handle all the ammonia he says to add. Unfortunately, most people don't have access to the bacteria to seed the tank. His daily addition of more and more ammonia will make a fishless cycle take forever.

One thing that I have always had trouble understanding about his methods is that he clearly states that too much can be bad yet he still says to add enough ammonia to raise the level to about 5 ppm and then add that amount daily until the nitrite spikes. If you have no way to seed the tank, it will be a minimum of 3 days before there are ANY bacteria present to begin processing the ammonia. By that time your ammonia reading is around 15 ppm, which to me is way too high. By the 5th day, I can see the ammonia being over 20 ppm. And when that does get processed, the nitrite will probably spike in the neighborhood of 30 ppm since you are adding more every day in the form of more ammonia.

I am not a believer in the "add daily" method unless you are cycling for a super heavy bio load for fish like plecos, oscars, etc. I still prefer the "add and wait" method. It has worked well for me so far.

Completely agree. Dr. Cow did us a great favor by getting things started with fishless cycling, but the idea has evolved since his articles.

 

[Twobeards]

Also, can anyone answer my other question. Can any algae eaters live in coldwater with a goldfish? Thanks.

I have a Leopard Sailfin Pleco L165 that started life in a gold fish tank with no heater and that was a year ago he is now 9" long so I moved him to a heated 55 gal. and he is still doing great!!! Id say yes a pleco would be ok in a cold water tank but ask at the lfs on any particular pleco just to be sure