Tiger Barb Deaths: 3 in <24 hours

[hvtgrad05]

Request Help

Tank size: 38 Gal
tank age: 1 Yr
pH: 7
ammonia: 0
nitrite: 0
nitrate: 0
kH:
gH:
tank temp: Appx 78 to 80

There is a large bubble strip in bottom of tank hooked to a 55 gallon air pump so it's not an oxygenation issue.

Fish Symptoms (include full description including lesion, color, location, fish behavior): Pale, Gasping, Swimming Nose Down, Not Bloated, Flatter Belly, Swimming Alone; Eating Well Surprisingly; Lost 3 Tiger Barbs (2 Green, 1 Orange) in under 24 hours with almost no symptoms except the orange seemed pale in the few hours before. Green ones were fine a few hours ago and found basically green and white on filter a short time ago. 1 orange tiger barb is dispalying the listed symptoms (others did not). No lesions. No ick. Not Velvet Disease nor Anchor Worms. No signs of flukes, no gill irritation. No excess mucus production. No fin rot. Does not match dropsy or swim bladder issues. No obvious disease I'm familiar with. Does not seem to be stress (no fighting, no chasing, plenty of decor and hiding spots). Dying/Dead fish were bought 8 days ago.

Volume and Frequency of water changes: Bi weekly to Weekly depending on parameters, appx 10 to 25% depending on parameters.

Chemical Additives or Media in your tank: Bacteria Additive - extra added with introduction of new fish to avoid ammonia spike in both tank and filter; Dechlorinator/Ammonia Reducer - very small amount added to prevent ammonia spike 2 days after introducting new fish (3 drops - should be 1 drop per gallon; used with each water change along with bacteria); Media: Carbon with Biowheel (Penguin Emporer 150 Power Filter with 1 Carbon Filter Insert but can take 2); 45 lbs Aquarium Gravel

Tank inhabitants: 1x 5" Male Angel Fish (this dude is huge but ignoring all but 1 fish); 1x 1" Female Angel Fish in an Isolation Chamber (this is the fish the big guy is preoccupied with; Isolation Chamber is to safely acclimate the two angel fish to avoid fighting later); 1x 1" Albino Cory Catfish; 2x (Formerly 3) 1.5" Orange Tiger Barbs; 1x 1" Green Tiger Barb (was 3; The orange and green were shoaling together and not showing aggression toward each other; 2 greens died within 4 hours of introduction of new green); 1x 2.5" Pearl Gourami (At Full Growth 27" of fish total prior to this morning so no overcrowding when going by 1 inch per gallon; currently have 25 inches of fish if all were full grown; still well under capacity, and again, all parameters were optimal according to two different testing methods).

Recent additions to your tank (living or decoration): Sept 11: 3 Orange Tiger Barbs; 2 Green Tiger Barbs; 1 Female Angel Fish; 1 Albino Cory Catfish; 1 Java Fern; 1 Red Fern; Sept 19 (today - after orange tiger barb died): 1 Pearl Gourami; 1 Green Tiger Barb

Additional Notes:

Diet: Tetra Brand Flakes; do have 2 bettas in different 5 gallon tanks and do occasionally offer a few tetra betta food pieces as a treat to the fish in the 38 gallon tank

Last Water Changes: Sept 19 (today); Sept 11

Did lose a female angel fish > 1 month ago which triggered male to become depressed; treated with microbe lift artimiss as he did develop excess slime production with no other symptoms - product did work and recovered completely 3 weeks before introducing new fish. Female had paralyzed mouth (broken or dislocated jaw possibly; nothing stuck in mouth. Treated for mouth fungus but no luck). Male was usually voracious eater but was barely eating and stopped interacting with us (he's a glutton for attention normally from his humans). Behavior improved after introduction of new fish, indicating depression was the issue. Male is appx 8 years old; female was same age. Normally do Quarantine but due to cicrumstances, my usual quarantine tank is not here (on loan), and my backup is inaccessible at the moment. As it was only the angel fish and I was concerned about the depression, I did introduce directly to the tank (yes i know better, but circumstances).

Petco (Our local mom n pop shop offers no guarantees on their fish anymore since his stock is usually less than healthy due to his sources; only 1 mom n pop shop in the area, others are Petco or Petsmart sadly) did a water test and was surprised my parameters were optimal. I always test before water changes with an API Freshwater Master Test Kit so my test was run prior to the Petco API Dipstick Test, prior to any water changes. My test also showed optimal (Basically 0 on both Nitrogens and 0 Ammonia, 7 for pH). The first fish died shortly before my test, prior to the water change. I did do a 25% change even though parameters were optimal, simply because the fish died.

Acclimation process: 30 minutes floating unopened bag in tank; dipping to mix water every 5 to 10 minutes over 45 minutes after 20 minutes of floating the bags. Use tank lid to hold bag in place after removing bands to mix water.

No direct light even enters my apartment due to forested park about 30 feet from my residence; Air Conditioner has not been used since Summer 2021 (this is Sept 2022). Internal Tank Thermometer is checked regularly, multiple times per day, but apartment rarely is above 84, even without air conditioning being used.

I took Aquaculture as part of my Horticulture and Environmental Sciences Course and extensively helped my instructor build and maintain the systems; also was the only one remotely trusted to maintain the classroom aquarium (abandoned project from another student). I'm trained to handle the introduction of larger numbers of fish in an aquarium, as evidenced by my parameters being surprisingly normal (according to others it's surprising). I also grew up with gold fish aquariums, tropical aquariums, frog aquariums, and salt aquariums. This one has me stumped... but sometimes multiple heads are better than 1 on figuring this out.

Does anyone have any ideas?

Side Note: This is municipal water, not a well. On a scale of 1 to 10 for hardness, I'd say it's probably a 3 or 4; Not exactly soft - I've used soft water that was amazing, but I've lived in areas with extremely hard water that would cause excessive calcium buildup on things too. I do live not far from the airport that President Joe Biden uses when he visits home (please, no political comments, just mentioning this due to a few water quality issues from that particular airport/Air National Guard Base from firefighting foam but I don't think that's the issue, or else the entire county would have this issue, but worth noting)

 

[BrianK]

I've lost a few for no apparent reason over a couple of months though, not 24 hours. Mine just stopped eating, still looked healthy but slowly got weak and died. The first 2 I chalked up to one very aggressive one that terrorized the rest of them so I got rid of him and slowly lost a couple more. Maybe still stress from the killer? Who knows. Now they seemed to be doing pretty well except a couple with fin rot that I am treating now. Long comment that is of no particular help in your situation.

 

[Colin_T]

Hi and welcome to the forum

Any chance of video and pictures of the fish and tank?

You can upload videos to YouTube, then copy & paste the link here.

If you use a mobile phone to film the fish, hold the phone horizontally so the footage fills the entire screen.

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How often and how do you clean the filter?

Do you gravel clean the substrate when you do a water change?
Do you dechlorinate the new water before adding it to the tank?

Don't add new fish to a tank when fish have just died. It simply makes things worse. If fish die, wait at least a month before adding new fish so the new fish don't introduce diseases and so the other fish can get over whatever is killing them.

 

[hvtgrad05]

The angel fish that I bought 9 days ago died this morning. She was swimming fine, colors not pale so no signs of stress nor disease... she was isolated in a 3 way breeder with the inserts removed. There was plenty of water flow through it and no excess food. The isolation is because angel fish are territorial and will fight to the death during introduction unless introduced slowly or put in as babies together. Her bands only paled when I popped the slotted lid off to feed her.

The barb is back to normal except it's isolating itself and still breathing rapidly, and oddly thin. The other orange barb is breathing a little heavier but acting normal.

There has been no mucus.

The 2 fish I added were previous tank mates and none added to the tank as Petco had a mishap and the last shipment that should have been put in that section (4 sections, each a different pump system), did not survive long enough to be put in the tanks (basically arrived dead) - I asked because that section was sold out of the more popular species that should have just arrived (and were sold out on my prior visit). That being said, the gourami was an exchange for the barb that died (same price) and the green one was a lot less (I was concerned about aggression). I thought he'd gotten into it with the Angel Fish (not unusual) until the two greens died last night and the angel was ignoring them all day and last night - again, all appeared 100% healthy outside the 1st one being pale which is a common sign of stress from fighting. I was under the impression it was a different supplier too but I'm wondering if it's the same supplier and they are having massive problems with their stock?

Yes, cleaning the gravel to remove waste is part of my water changes. I never do one without it.

I do the adding of the water the way professionals do - after removing water/vacuuming the tank, I add the dechlorinator to the tank and then slowly fill it after (slower than most professionals who care for fish in offices and such actually), wait about 10 minutes, and add bacteria. I have a python water changer that hooks to the sink. Again, my parameters are perfect and I fill slow enough not to irritate the fish/kill the existing bacteria. I am trained to do this professionally and have never lost a fish after a water change.

I have had fish almost my entire life and I'm 36 years old this coming Saturday... and I have never had this happen (so many fish dying) outside of high school when the system had flukes, and I noticed in the early stages, but they were goldfish and the teacher thought it was their color (easy mistake as that particular species of flukes looks like black spots on the gills and or head, similar to a goldfish's normal spotting). After I finally was able to convince him, it was too late and all of them died in a 3 week period in part due to budget issues. The treatment that was in the budget would have worked in the early stages but it was used too late.

I check the filter/cartridge weekly. I change the cartridge every 3 to 4 weeks. If I rinse it, I do it in a pitcher of tank water. The intake I clean when needed which isn't often.

I will try to get the photos later today. I am not home. I would have last night but the big angel kept getting in the way (did I mention he's a glutton for attention?).

 

[hvtgrad05]

Its not actually cloudy, its the fact the light is inside the tank and my phone camera (cheap phone). I already checked that with an external light.

 

[hvtgrad05]

The tiger barb in the pictures was swimming around alone 15 minutes ago when I checked on them. I just looked over and seen this (see image)... I snapped the image and immediately removed him.

That's 5 fish in 36 hours, and the others weren't symptomatic (they weren't breathing heavy or anything). The last orange one is breathing a bit rapidly but swimming fine.

I still have no idea what's wrong... there are no other signs nor symptoms...