The great kitten debate

[wuvmybetta]

While you're at it, why don't you only allow people from certain countries to reply to certain posts.

Good thing for me that we American's are arrogant enough to believe that every country's problems involves us and requires our input

J/K!!! Seriously.


I agree with Wolf

If someone wants to re-home an abandoned/feral kitten then kudos to them.
If they have the room, time and patience to re-home an older cat then that is also a good thing.

Any cat being adopted is a great thing.
If I wasn't going out of town for five days in June, I would have soooooo adopted a spanking new kitten yesterday Cutest kitten evah! They had some amazing adults as well But as CFC has said, people want one that their kids can hold. If I were single and I didn't have other pets, I'd take a cat. But as the mother of a young child with a rabbit,dog,fish etc, I just couldn't (personal choice) at this point in time, a kitten would be better.

 

[Bloo]

Angry Platty, the OP requested this specific thread to be based on the UK situation. It's must not only be frustrating to her that her lovely kitten thread was hijacked and turned into an argument, but also this thread where she specifically asked for it to be UK related.
The situation between the UK and the USA is very different.
Yes there is a common coloration in the general plight of animals in shelters, but this is not what this thread is supposed to be about.
CFC is merely trying to bring it back to what it's supposed to be.

 

[MegTheFish]

Still, for every kitten that is born because "somebody wants to breed their cat" an older cat is living out a lonely life at a shelter and is eventually put down.
Personally, I find older cats to be more cuddly. Kittens just want to run all day and play with their toys. (Most) older cats would rather sit in their owners lap purring away all day. Its sad that most kittens are chosen over adult cats...we shouldn't feel sorry for the kittens because as I've been told my all you UK people apparently its extremely hard to find a kitten in the first place.

 

[FishEnthusiast]

I understand that those of us not in the UK can comment on kittens in the UK. However, the arguments that were started in the OP's picture thread were not about whether or not there are kittens in the UK or really anything to do with the UK specifically(this is what I remember anyway). They were more directed at the fact that she allowed her queen to get pregnant without knowing who the father was.

Furthermore, I believe this thread was started to keep the arguing out of her thread. The OP hasn't even posted since starting the thread. My take on that is she just didn't want the arguments in HER picture thread. I don't think that it matters where in the world cats are being indiscriminately bred. What matters is that it is happening. If this thread was meant only for the UK, then it should be on a forum that has only UK members. I don't think that it is fair to say that people from other countries can't comment on their own experience just because they don't live in the UK.

Cats are cats no matter where they are born. Cats are killed every day in every city, town and village because someone decided to adopt, buy or get a kitten instead. Cat lovers EVERYWHERE do not like to see this happen. Cat lovers EVERYWHERE want to see it stop. Until people stop indiscrimately breeding their cats, this fight will rage on.

As for the "I want a cuddly kitten for my children" argument, my daughter can not get near the cat we had as a kitten. However, the stray we brought in not too long ago doesn't leave her side. She prefers him over Fritz any day. All of my cats are full grown, but when Fritz was a kitten, he never "cuddled" with anyone, except our other cat Chevy. Now that he is an adult, he is one of the suckiest cats you will ever meet.

This post is directed at no one in particular, and no offense was intended.

 

[NinjaSmurf]

I have one more thing to say, and then I'm done, as I've already said all I can really say. I keep seeing posts about people wanting a kitten so they have something their kid can hold. Kittens, scratch, they bite, because they haven't learned that we have softer skin than they do. I've lived with kittens, and having five of them attack your legs under the blankets at three in the morning when you have to go to school is a pain, not to mention it hurts, and you will get funny looks for having deep scratches up and down your arms.

As to adults not being all 'holdy', Python, one of the cats I have to get re-homed, is the most loving cat I've ever seen, he rubs up against complete strangers, loves to be pet, and I half wonder if he isn't part ragdoll because he will let you drag him around like a blanket. So I'm sorry, I don't see how this argument can hold up.


Fish, I agree with you completely.

 

[mm_simb]

I understand that those of us not in the UK can comment on kittens in the UK. However, the arguments that were started in the OP's picture thread were not about whether or not there are kittens in the UK or really anything to do with the UK specifically(this is what I remember anyway). They were more directed at the fact that she allowed her queen to get pregnant without knowing who the father was.

Furthermore, I believe this thread was started to keep the arguing out of her thread. The OP hasn't even posted since starting the thread. My take on that is she just didn't want the arguments in HER picture thread. I don't think that it matters where in the world cats are being indiscriminately bred. What matters is that it is happening. If this thread was meant only for the UK, then it should be on a forum that has only UK members. I don't think that it is fair to say that people from other countries can't comment on their own experience just because they don't live in the UK.

Cats are cats no matter where they are born. Cats are killed every day in every city, town and village because someone decided to adopt, buy or get a kitten instead. Cat lovers EVERYWHERE do not like to see this happen. Cat lovers EVERYWHERE want to see it stop. Until people stop indiscrimately breeding their cats, this fight will rage on.

As for the "I want a cuddly kitten for my children" argument, my daughter can not get near the cat we had as a kitten. However, the stray we brought in not too long ago doesn't leave her side. She prefers him over Fritz any day. All of my cats are full grown, but when Fritz was a kitten, he never "cuddled" with anyone, except our other cat Chevy. Now that he is an adult, he is one of the suckiest cats you will ever meet.

This post is directed at no one in particular, and no offense was intended.

I also agree with you completely.
On another note, I think this thread was created for our own entertainment. A thread about how your free roaming cat got pregnant with another cat that you don't even know about is going to draw up different feelings and if people cannot respect that or handle it, they shouldn't be posting about it.
I doubt anyone who is breeding their cats, wanting a kitten, or anything of the like will even come to an understanding of why people who love animals so much say that it's wrong to breed cats if you don't even know who the father is or if there are older cats in the shelters wanting a home. IMO this thread no longer holds a purpose as we've all said what we wanted to say.

 

[lady_tanksalot]

ok here's some facts...(please note fact not conjecture) I have gathered these facts today from the three shelters within a 40 mile radius of my home (guess where, yep you got it... in the Uk)

at present there are;

No kittens avaiable
26 adult cats available
16 adult cats are not available to homes with either children or other pets
3 of the adult cats are ferral
4 are estimated to be over 12 years old
only 2 adult cats have been in the shelters for more than 4 months
over the last year only two cats have been euthanised and this was on medical grounds
on average there are estimated to be around 5 calls to each shelter a day from people requesting kitten

I also phoned a local lady who had advertised a litter of kittens (plain black moggies) for £60 each, she had sold all 8 within a day and had since had approximatly 50 calls from people also interested.

so firstly, yes there is a shortage of availabe felines no matter what age
secondly some people neither want or are able to rehome an older cat
Thirdly why is it ok to breed pedigree's and not moggies? please don't tell me they are healthier.

no i don't know exactly who the father of stanleys kittens are but it appears they belong to the burmese a few doors away from their colour, but there are only really two other options.
As i have mentioned several times, my cats are all fully inoculated and very healthy.

yes there may be adult cats in shelters but not too many here, does this mean we should insist that everyone homes an adult cat, i dont think so, i'm pleased to say that here we still have the freedom to choose.

If i ever have a problem of not being able to rehome a kitten i will have my cats neutered. I also personally would not take in or breed a cat/kitten that i could not afford to keep.

 

[Jessica13]

I wasn't going to reply to this thread as i'd said all i needed/wanted to previously. But i just read lady_tanksalot's posts and thought i would

Firstly, i wouldn't say its 'wrong' to breed a moggie. There are always people looking for a cheap kitten so they will be sold, though saying that i'd never pay £60 for a moggie!!! But, with some cat breeds becoming as rare as they are, i believe that if you're going to breed your cats you should try to breed the best you can, which is pedigree. This will work to keep the breed growing, and wont add to the number of moggies in rescue centres! Im pretty sure you didn't find any pedigree cats in local rescues!!

Im also assuming that you bred your cats for the money as you say you'd only have them neutered if you couldn't sell them. Again, pedigrees would be better as they are worth more money. The temperments, in my experience dont differ between moggies and pedigrees! My pedigree cat is every bit as cuddly and friendly as any moggie!

Lastly, you say you're cats are innoculated and healthy, which im sure they are. But surely you're aware that letting your cat get pregnant by any tom off the street could be putting your cat at risk? Im not a vet by any means, but im fairly sure she could have got diseases/viruses from the male if he had anything... Just a thought!

 

[mm_simb]

Lastly, you say you're cats are innoculated and healthy, which im sure they are. But surely you're aware that letting your cat get pregnant by any tom off the street could be putting your cat at risk? Im not a vet by any means, but im fairly sure she could have got diseases/viruses from the male if he had anything... Just a thought!

Let's just think for a minute that the female cat has all her shots and couldn't possible catch anything (which is not always true), the kittens can certainly catch what the dad has. If you want to breed them more I suggest you go find someone who has a male cat that has all the shots and is healthy.

 

[lady_tanksalot]

Jessica its impossible to say if there were any pedigrees amonst the bunch at the shelter, i didn't actually see the cats, i interviewed the managers on the phone. However i did once adopt a pedigree from the rspca, she was a british blue and gorgeous, however it became apparent after getting her home that she had always been an indoor cat and wasn't used to other animals. The situation wasn't good for HER, she was not happy and became very anxious around my other pets, after about six months and much advice from experts, she remained unhappy and we rehomed her with friends who had no other pets, we still visit her regularly.

As for the suggestion of pedigrees, you only have to look at some pedigree dog breeds to see where problems may lie ahead through this kind of selective breeding, certain gentical abnormalities are already starting to emerge in certain breeds of cat, i'm not into making cats suffer through eye/ear problems etc just so i can make a fast buck and maskerade it as only breeding the best therefore pedigree. Pedigree cats may not be different in temperament but they are sure becoming different in health matters.

no i'm not in it for the money,( i actually said if i could not rehome, not sell) my kittens are given away to anyone i know will provide them with a GOOD home.

and no, if a cat is fully innoculated the kittens aren't at risk due to antibodies supplied in the queens milk.

 

[Jessica13]

no i'm not in it for the money,( i actually said if i could not rehome, not sell) my kittens are given away to anyone i know will provide them with a GOOD home.

Hmmmm....

If i know the new owner so can personnally vouch for the home they are going to I will give them away, if not they will be sold at a premium

Ok then...

I would imagine you were VERY lucky to find a pedigree cat at a shelter. Never seen one before.... I agree that some breeds of cats do have health problems, though, as with dogs (which i am more familiar with tbh) this is usually because they have been bred to be a certain way, for example pugs are bred to be small and have those squashed up faces, but they also have breathing problems. I cant say i know of any specific cat breeds that have any major health problems related to them. I've kept persians with no problems at all and currently have a 12 year old Ragdoll who is in perfect health and has never had a trip to the vet other than for check ups and vaccinations.

And im sorry, but i really have to disagree with you. Your cat CAN get diseases as you cant innoculate against everything, and as mm_simb said, your kittens certainly could!! I would follow the advice of others and either neuter your cat, or if you must breed more kittens, find a reputable breeder whos cat you can use. I really dont know how, if you love your cats as much as you claim, you would be willing to put them at risk in this way...

 

[Arfie]

I have to say, the more I have read in this thread, the more I feel neutering is a good thing, though I am thinking one or two ignorant people should be neutered to prevent the spread of the stupid gene, and it's a pity their parents weren't!

Read the facts people, in lady_tanksalot's area there is a shortage, her cats are fully inoculated, more than my own is *makes a note to take the moggy to the vet*

I KNOW that if she couldn't re-home all the kittens she would have got the cats neutered, we discussed it before Stanley got pregnant.

You also seem to be missing the point, she is not "breeding" cats, she is simply not prepared to unnecessarily put her cats through an operation to neuter when it is not needed, if it becomes needed I have no doubt she will do it, for the good of the cat AND the kittens.

I also know for a fact that she will give them away, as I have been offered one, in fact more than one, so your assumptions about this are wrong!

And you cant protect yourself, let alone your animals from all diseases, or keep them entirely safe from everything.

Jessica didn't one of your parrots die when it was outside, suspected to be taken by a hawk or something? And do you not still let them sit outside on the same fence it was taken from? as you say

you would be willing to put them at risk in this way...

Glass houses and all that!

Arfie

 

[Jessica13]

Jessica didn't one of your parrots die when it was outside, suspected to be taken by a hawk or something? And do you not still let them sit outside on the same fence it was taken from? as you say

you would be willing to put them at risk in this way... 

Glass houses and all that!

Arfie

Well, no! Thats not true. But its hardly the same thing either. I would NEVER intentionally put my animals at risk, and im quite shocked you'd even imply it as you know me fairly well. I allow my birds out as i believe that keeping them in a house 24/7 is as cruel as keeping them in a cage 24/7. They need sunlight and fresh air. I've not had any problems since and as you, for some reason im not too sure about, dont know what happened with my bird i wont go into that as its WAY off topic.

Also, by not neitering her cat and allowing it to roam the streets she IS breeding her cats. She knows that by letting an unneutered cat out that it will most likely have kittens and, even with two litters, is refusing to neuter them now. I wouldn't say im 'pro-neutering', i dont have my dog neutered for medical reasons, and will not be neutering the ***** puppy we have, as she's going to be rbed from, or the dog as he's doing showing and will in the future, hopefully become a stud dog. If he doesnt however, he will be neutered.

 

[lady_tanksalot]

If i sell a kitten at a premium its to guarentee it goes to someone who really wants it and not to someone who has taken it on a whim. (i so far have never had the need to sell a kitten)

And if you want contact details of people who i have given my kittens to (some who have been waiting for a kitten from me for over a year) then PM me, otherwise do not dare hmmmmmmm me i find that totally insulting and take it as a personal insult from someone who has no idea of what kind of person i am

 

[Jessica13]

And if you want contact details of people who i have given my kittens to (some who have been waiting for a kitten from me for over a year) then PM me, otherwise do not dare hmmmmmmm me i find that totally insulting and take it as a personal insult from someone who has no idea of what kind of person i am

I 'hmmm'd as you were contradicting yourself. How you can find that insulting i dont know.

I dont know who you are, i dont particularly wish to know you either. The impression i have of you is from what you have said yourself. I've not made anything up. And no, i dont need to know wh you've sold your kittens to. They are adorable kittens and i am certain you would have found good homes for them. Hopefully you will consider some of the thoughts expressed by people in this thread