The Betta Myth #2

[CaptainBarnicles]

Thanks for keeping things mature and civil here folks interesting topic to debate.

Am I right in assuming these theoretical bettas in jars are being raised from fry by breeders who want to sell them? Rather than a regular betta enthusiast keeping them for pets?

 

[JohnnyReb]

Thanks for keeping things mature and civil here folks interesting topic to debate.

Am I right in assuming these theoretical bettas in jars are being raised from fry by breeders who want to sell them? Rather than a regular betta enthusiast keeping them for pets?

First of all, TY for using the word, debate. I can only speak for myself and the Bettas I mentioned are not theoretical. They are on shelves in my fish room. I would like to sell some but here in my area it most likely not possible. I jarred 35 males out of a 200+ fry spawn. I pulled out around 50 (males/females) and moved all to a 5gallon tank. I moved 25 (males/females) to a 5gallon tank and left 75 in the 20gallon grow out tank. They are 5+ months old. Did not lose a one of the 200+ prior to moving to the grow out tank. After the move to the 20gallon tank I lost one here and there, no more than 5 or 6 over the months. After jarring I lost 3 to what I will call shock. I lost 0 in the 5gallon tank, 0 in the 20gallon tank. To date mortality has been less than 5%.

 

[MaloK]

Are the fish "Worthy" ? I mean, are they beautiful and could be sold ?

Maybe it's time to investigate a serious way to be able to sell and ship them.

I Understand jarring bettas for their grow-up period 6-8 months, then relocate them to happy homes where they can have a real life.

Beyond this point, I would consider keeping a betta in a bowl for his whole life cruel and very unethical.

I consider 3 gallons for temporary housing and 5 and more gallons suitable for permanent settings.

I seen a picture where the guy bought a hundred Fluval 3 gallons premium betta kits and installed them on 4 rows of 25 in a room. with a divider between each. I can't find it back tho, But all the tanks where planted and beautiful and each of these betta where treated like kings. It looked like a lot of job, but the effect of a betta wall mosaic was so cool.

 

[CaptainBarnicles]

Putting aside the ethics of housing bettas in jars a moment I feel inclined to ask what you plan to do with 200+ bettas if you're not able to sell them in your area? Would it not be considered irresponsible to not do that kind of research or having a plan in place before even attempting to breed them?

 

[JohnnyReb]

Putting aside the ethics of housing bettas in jars a moment I feel inclined to ask what you plan to do with 200+ bettas if you're not able to sell them in your area? Would it not be considered irresponsible to not do that kind of research or having a plan in place before even attempting to breed them?

The jarring of my Bettas is a temporary setting. I agree, no one should permanently house a betta in a 32 container. Having said that, most all bettas are housed in jars at some point in their life due to having to segregate the males. It is not practical to house 200 bettas separately without the jars. All large scale operations use this system. I also believe you can keep large groups together until sale time and am trying that system as well. My plan was and still is to sell at some point if possible or give them to an LFS if sales are not possible. My dad always said you can't sell what you do not have. I did the research and still think it may be possible to sell them. How many posts are on here about posters wanting to raise fry with no means to care for them? Let me assure you I have the means. I want to try to sell them at full maturity.

 

[JohnnyReb]

Are the fish "Worthy" ? I mean, are they beautiful and could be sold ?

Maybe it's time to investigate a serious way to be able to sell and ship them.

I Understand jarring bettas for their grow-up period 6-8 months, then relocate them to happy homes where they can have a real life.

Beyond this point, I would consider keeping a betta in a bowl for his whole life cruel and very unethical.

I consider 3 gallons for temporary housing and 5 and more gallons suitable for permanent settings.

I seen a picture where the guy bought a hundred Fluval 3 gallons premium betta kits and installed them on 4 rows of 25 in a room. with a divider between each. I can't find it back tho, But all the tanks where planted and beautiful and each of these betta where treated like kings. It looked like a lot of job, but the effect of a betta wall mosaic was so cool.

The males in the jars are displaying a variety of colors and size is going according to most norms. I have researched packing and shipping. I have about 3 more months to grow them to their potential. The smallest containers I use for my breeding stock is a 2.5gallon tank, carded, snails, heater, bubbler and filter in each. I also have some plastic plants for them to sleep on. The production of fish and the practical keeping of fish as a hobby has different parameters.

 

[WhistlingBadger]

I have now read the whole thread, and I'm not entirely sure what we're debating.

 

[JohnnyReb]

I have now read the whole thread, and I'm not entirely sure what we're debating.

1. Water change frequency in jarred bettas
2. Amount of water to change
3. Container size for jarred Bettas
4. Ethnics of jarring fish
5. Challenging norms in jarred bettas
6. Southeast Asia production techniques
7. Ethnics of over production of Bettas in the U.S.

 

[Aqua67]

We had so much fun on Myth #1, lets do another. I have found that water changes , especially jarred males, in a 32 ounce cup can be done at 7 to 10 day intervals of 100% of the water, rather than the recommended 25-50% of the water every 3-4 days. This is going to spark some interest and comments, I am sure.

I believe it because I’m on week three with a betta in a 5 1/2 gallon aquarium, and the water still shows zero ammonia, nitrite and nitrate.

 

[GaryE]

I have now read the whole thread, and I'm not entirely sure what we're debating.

I think our focus hath been a little hit and myth.

 

[CassCats]

I breed fish, but I'm also mindful of my local market. If it's a species I'm not likely to sell quickly enough, I don't breed it intentionally.

I also try to keep one thing going at a time so I'm not overwhelmed or requiring much more space. My husband would likely lose his mind if I set up more than I already have going lol

Personally, I like totes over jars. More room for the fish, but also cheap and easy to manage. I use plastic totes for fry raising at various stages of growth and for quarantine or medical purposes. They can be drained and stored away easily when not in use, and they're not a permanent temptation to keep setup.

Newborn fry I prefer to keep in small setups as it's easier to keep them close to food vs larger setups, and fish that need access to air it's easier to reach the air in a small space.

I'd imagine totes would be better even for bettas than jars as they'd allow more horizontal space to enjoy while still offering a space saving option.

 

[gwand]

I breed fish, but I'm also mindful of my local market. If it's a species I'm not likely to sell quickly enough, I don't breed it intentionally.

I also try to keep one thing going at a time so I'm not overwhelmed or requiring much more space. My husband would likely lose his mind if I set up more than I already have going lol

Personally, I like totes over jars. More room for the fish, but also cheap and easy to manage. I use plastic totes for fry raising at various stages of growth and for quarantine or medical purposes. They can be drained and stored away easily when not in use, and they're not a permanent temptation to keep setup.

Newborn fry I prefer to keep in small setups as it's easier to keep them close to food vs larger setups, and fish that need access to air it's easier to reach the air in a small space.

I'd imagine totes would be better even for bettas than jars as they'd allow more horizontal space to enjoy while still offering a space saving option.

What are totes? Photo please?

 

[JohnnyReb]

1. Water change frequency in jarred bettas
2. Amount of water to change
3. Container size for jarred Bettas
4. Ethnics of jarring fish
5. Challenging norms in jarred bettas
6. Southeast Asia production techniques
7. Ethnics of over production of Bettas in the U.S.

I think our focus hath been a little hit and myth.

Douche!!

 

[JohnnyReb]

What are totes? Photo please?

Large plastic containers. Range in size from 12 quarts t0 325 gallons.

 

[MuddyWaters]

I have thought of an easy dripping system made of simple modified mason jars that could use a huge sump filter and deliver constant fresh water to each jars...

In a large scale betta breeding operation, I would probably end up paying 5 dollars on each fish I sell...

They would also be one of the most expensive mutts ever sold...

I LFS near me has a stack of tiny square containers with a drip system where a little tube drops water into each and then it runs out at another spot. It's pretty cool and keeps the water constantly moving. They charge $10 a piece for bettas except for a few that are rare and then they're more like $30.