The Betta Myth #2

[MaloK]

No sadly it's not true, in nature even if the fish lives in a puddle of dirty water. with poor oxygen... They are filled with all the bacteria and organism that breaks down ammonia and all other toxins known to affect fish.

Bettas are not the slightest more resistant to ammonia than other fishes. It will burns their gills and damages their internal organs, even though they can supplement their oxygen intake through their labyrinth organ.

I believe Johnny is pretty much aware of temperatures required and probably have a room dedicated already.

If I remember his My BBS, Daphnia/Moina and Green Water Culture System Looked like a Lab installation.

I can imagine the rest.

 

[MaloK]

The betta splendens we have are not like their natural counterpart.

They are petri dish bread and love clean and nutrient poor water.

In the wild they would probably catch something before hitting the bottom of the puddle.

 

[JohnnyReb]

I agree 100%, but that may or may not be stress. It maybe a natural instinct when in low water to conceal itself?

The only time I've had to be careful with the amount of water changed was with my cherry shrimp- and a lot of that was because, at the time, I was not adjusting the GH until after - I started adjusting GH prior to putting the fresh water in and all was good.

All my other fish either love soft water or tolerate it (which is what i have), so I do heavy, regular water changes. 100% would be fine, imho, but too much of a PITA to do LOL....and not really necessary for the situations I have. I would think a betta in a jar would benefit greatly from 100% change periodically.

I am surprised at the length of time in between changes, though, I have no experience with bettas like that.

It goes against the dogma.

 

[JohnnyReb]

The betta splendens we have are not like their natural counterpart.

They are petri dish bread and love clean and nutrient poor water.

In the wild they would probably catch something before hitting the bottom of the puddle.

If you research Betta producers in Southeast Asia, they are one step above a puddle, not like here in our pristine, sanitized tanks. However, most rice paddies have pretty good water conditions.

 

[emeraldking]

No sadly it's not true, in nature even if the fish lives in a puddle of dirty water. with poor oxygen... They are filled with all the bacteria and organism that breaks down ammonia and all other toxins known to affect fish.

Bettas are not the slightest more resistant to ammonia than other fishes. It will burns their gills and damages their internal organs, even though they can supplement their oxygen intake through their labyrinth organ.

@MaloK , no offence but you should read my reply a bit better...
This is what I've said:

The labyrinth will take care of it that they can live in dirted water and even in poor oxygen containing water for quite a while.

"for quite a while". Yes, water in free nature has got other water conditions than in captive conditions like in a tank. But no matter if they're wild or breeding forms, the labyrinth remains there for a reason. Can their gills burn? Of course, they can. But I've been referring to a time frame by "for quite a while", this in comparison to non labyrinth fish. I've been around bettas ever since my parents kept them (since the 1960's) and then I've bred them myself for just over 15 years on a row. I'm not stating my reply without a valid reason.
I've stopped my betta keeping when my health issues became more of a problem. For breeding bettas on a large scale besides livebearers, took me a lot of energy that it wasn't realistic anymore to be active on that scale. So, I gave all my bettas and stuff to a friend betta breeder. And went on with just the livebearers. But I still keep contact with the wolrd of betta breeders. In the meantime I did keep a number of wild betta species for a while. But livebearers are still my number 1 of favorite fish. My last wild ones went to the bettas for all society.

 

[MaloK]

@MaloK , no offence but you should read my reply a bit better...
This is what I've said:

"for quite a while". Yes, water in free nature has got other water conditions than in captive conditions like in a tank. But no matter if they're wild or breeding forms, the labyrinth remains there for a reason. Can their gills burn? Of course, they can. But I've been referring to a time frame by "for quite a while", this in comparison to non labyrinth fish. I've been around bettas ever since my parents kept them (since the 1960's) and then I've bred them myself for just over 15 years on a row. I'm not stating my reply without a valid reason.
I've stopped my betta keeping when my health issues became more of a problem. For breeding bettas on a large scale besides livebearers, took me a lot of energy that it wasn't realistic anymore to be active on that scale. So, I gave all my bettas and stuff to a friend betta breeder. And went on with just the livebearers. But I still keep contact with the wolrd of betta breeders. In the meantime I did keep a number of wild betta species for a while. But livebearers are still my number 1 of favorite fish. My last wild ones went to the bettas for all society.

No offense taken at all. We are here for discussion. I was just explaining how I believe the water conditions in a 32 oz of sanitized water jar cannot remain sane in any extent without any biological filtration.

Correct me again But I would think. Even more if you are breeding them on commercial scale ? Feeding them good meals to make them grow fast and strong and poop trails etc...

"Keeping things in 32 oz jar", I have a tendency to think that water quality could be a challenging part of the operation.

 

[JohnnyReb]

No offense taken at all. We are here for discussion. I was just explaining how I believe the water conditions in a 32 oz of sanitized water jar cannot remain sane in any extent without any biological filtration.

Correct me again But I would think. Even more if you are breeding them on commercial scale ? Feeding them good meals to make them grow fast and strong and poop trails etc...

"Keeping things in 32 oz jar", I have a tendency to think that water quality could be a challenging part of the operation.

IME, no. A weekly change of 100% is adequate.

 

[MaloK]

IME, no. A weekly change of 100% is adequate.

Do you feed live food and frozen food etc ?

 

[JohnnyReb]

Do you feed live food and frozen food etc ?

I feed mosquito larvae when in season, Daphnia and BBS as well as a mixed pellet and some flakes.

 

[MaloK]

Ok. You guys confirm that I would be true to myself, and overdo it once again. Lolll.

 

[GaryE]

I have seen video of Asian farms with hundreds of jars, and people working flipping the males longfins out of jars which are dumped and changed 100% daily. At the time, the person presenting the video said it was a key reason why no North American producer can ever compete with Asian farms. There were a lot of people in that scene working on the daily water change.

Clean water causes faster growth.

That's what jars are all about, for better or worse. Growth leading to sales.

I've also watched go-pro video of wild Betta splendens, filmed by a friend who brought some of the fish back. The water was about 3 foot deep, and very clean and clear. It was a seasonally flooded meadow that always retained at least a foot of water. There were little fish in there too, something maybe Bororas-like. I couldn't see them clearly enough as the camera was aimed at the surface. It wasn't an action film, as the fish hovered. And hovered. And hovered. But the conditions weren't bad at all.

Here's a wild male identified as splendens that I kept and bred. They aren't much like the cultivars.

 

[MaloK]

I have thought of an easy dripping system made of simple modified mason jars that could use a huge sump filter and deliver constant fresh water to each jars...

In a large scale betta breeding operation, I would probably end up paying 5 dollars on each fish I sell...

They would also be one of the most expensive mutts ever sold...

 

[GaryE]

That's the issue. The people working on the farm were skilled. They worked fast, and were probably paid peanuts. The water was naturally warm. I imagine it was pre-loaded with antibiotics, and there was no health or safety protection for the workers. They poured the jars out over their bare feet.

I kid you not - I have seen beautiful Cambodian breed Bettas used as packing in the place of bubble wrap when customers order expensive fish. It was horrifying, frankly, as that treatment of the fish and of the farm workers was terrible. But Bettas (and people) are that cheap to the farms. A number of farms are stock exchange listed - big operations.

 

[Naughts]

I have seen video of Asian farms with hundreds of jars, and people working flipping the males longfins out of jars which are dumped and changed 100% daily. At the time, the person presenting the video said it was a key reason why no North American producer can ever compete with Asian farms. There were a lot of people in that scene working on the daily water change.

Clean water causes faster growth.

That's what jars are all about, for better or worse. Growth leading to sales.

I've also watched go-pro video of wild Betta splendens, filmed by a friend who brought some of the fish back. The water was about 3 foot deep, and very clean and clear. It was a seasonally flooded meadow that always retained at least a foot of water. There were little fish in there too, something maybe Bororas-like. I couldn't see them clearly enough as the camera was aimed at the surface. It wasn't an action film, as the fish hovered. And hovered. And hovered. But the conditions weren't bad at all.

Here's a wild male identified as splendens that I kept and bred. They aren't much like the cultivars.

Can you share the GoPro footage?

 

[Naughts]

We had so much fun on Myth #1, lets do another. I have found that water changes , especially jarred males, in a 32 ounce cup can be done at 7 to 10 day intervals of 100% of the water, rather than the recommended 25-50% of the water every 3-4 days. This is going to spark some interest and comments, I am sure.

What is the purpose of keeping them?