The Best Fish Forum

[raptorrex]

For starters, moderators should also be members, that way they become 'known' (and respected) by the rest of the membership. If that is not the case - i.e. mods are 'absentee' members, then why are they doing that role? They must have a reason/motive/incentive - I hope it's more than wielding moderator privileges.

Admins are quite often just people with the right technical skills to keep a forum going smoothly, and that's more important than their knowledge or love of aquariums etc. Of course if they are enthusiasts too, then all the better.

All mods here are active members (with high post counts to reflect that) and can be seen posting in the their areas (in particular) - but often frequent other areas as well.

So that clearly isn't the case here at TFF and this comment is not applicable at all.

and theres the rub, it is a feeling, admittedly not held by all, that, what you say should be the case, but ATM it is not always what appears to happen.

 

[andywg]

I feel the mods are active. If you check the members online there is usally one of them looking through, however this is a large forum that is possibly under-moderated, meaning the mods spend more time on their mod duties than general member duties.

Also consider the mod's areas of expertise. CFC doesn't post a huge amount, but then there just aren't the interesting oddball and catfish threads there used to be. Also, membership changes. CFC used to be one of very few people with decent knowledge and experience in brackish fish, now we have nmonks who has a huge wealth of experience and knowledge, as well as other members who can answer brackish questions. There is no need for CFc to answer every question in brackish as Fella, or Synirr or nmonks or any number of others can.

Tie the above paragrpahs together so that you have a mod spending more time "modding" and there is less of an atual "need" for the post to get answered by them and they will appear less active.

This is a large forum, and no one will ever be happy all the time, but I feel the changes have their roots more in the newer members than the older ones. There aren't the threads to keep the older members as interested, so they tend to drift off and post less. this is not a criticism of the board, all things change, but merely an observation. Many will have a different view point to me, and that is to be accepted.

 

[Miss Wiggle]

i think your about right andy, and if you notice all the people who've been made mods recently like tolak and black angel are much more active in term's of posting than some other older (as in longer serving, not age!) mods. I can't say I've been around long enough to see it but I suspect there is a steadyish turnover, older mods gradually post less and eventually retire and when they do they are replaced by more active members of the forum who post more and those in turn eventually post less and are replaced with the active members at the time.

It's the circle of life for this forum

 

[sww]

It's the circle of life for this forum

Always need to keep an eye on any cycle to make sure there is nothing going wrong

 

[three-fingers]

there's a certain shop selling fish with the wrong descriptions, who has refused to update their site, ignores people's requests for an explanation, and basically is what we're all saying we dont want in a fish shop - and they have a banner and a several page thread going in the sponsor section and are being pushed as the best shop in the world.

Now that is something that gets on my nerves about here...

Mod and admin wise, I think the forums OK, sometimes it would be nice to see them contribute more, but I understand they have other things to do . They all do their jobs and are always helpful, but this place could do with a few more mods. Although I've seen smaller forums wrecked when all of a sudden 20%+ of the members are made mods. It's actually pretty funny to watch, but painful at the same time.

Though not the only aquatic forum a frequent, this place is defiantly my favourite, for every unhelpful or even scornful member, there at least 3 that are very knowledgeable and willing to help .

 

[William]

We do appreciate all comments received about the site. They are not ignored, although most of the points raised here will not be able to be acted upon immediately I will say that when I have finished my finals (end of May), I am looking to shake up the site a bit and make it a better place, so your suggestions for how this can be achieved are obviously greatly appreciated. I have bookmarked this page for reference, and will be bothering some of you in the future about specifics!
Thanks,will

 

[Annastasia]

Agreed. I know I am personally always looking for suggestions on how to improve as a moderator.

I haven't been on much at all, granted. My grandmother has been in and out of the hospital five times, in a coma, and now she is basically on her last leg. I'm her primary caretaker, so it's been hard. I still check in on the forum everyday, and especially the Livebearer section. However, I have not been posting much. I'm trying to get back into that again. I'll be back to bug you all again soon.

 

[AMS]

This one of the biggest myths in the hobby, and one that annoys me almost as much 'scale-less fish are allergic to salt' or 'Bettas don't like big tanks'.

In 1992 freshwater fish accounted for approximately 96% of the total volume of imported fish to the US and 80% of the total import value. A more recent survey in Florida found that cultured freshwater and collected saltwater species accounted for $70 million and $4 million respectively. The top 32 species were all freshwater fish and accounted for 58% of the total imported value of the fish. In the US, 11 million people keep fish, but only 18% of these are marine aquariums. In terms of conservation issues, 90% of the freshwater aquarium fish traded are captive bred, while virtually all marine aquarium fish and invertebrates are caught from the wild.

The problem with marine fishkeeping is that it is very, very expensive to do properly, whereas freshwater fishkeeping can be done far more inexpensively, especially when you consider things like goldfish. Increasingly, marine fishkeeping is suffering from an image problem: there is good evidence that in certain places (e.g. Philippines) and for certain species (e.g. mandarinfish and Banggai cardinals) over-collection has resulted in serious declines in natural populations. Even if you banned wild-caught freshwater fish outright, that would only affect 10% of the traded species and most casual aquarists would never even notice. If you banned wild-caught marines, the hobby would basically vanish.

What I'd submit is that to marine aquarists it seems that their side of the hobby is the "natural evolution" of things. But that's often because marine aquarists don't explore the freshwater hobby in any great depth, so they get bored more quickly. They don't, for example, tend to be aquarists who enjoy breeding fish, which in my opinion is one of the very best aspects of the freshwater side of the hobby.

Cheers, Neale

Sooner or later most (not all, but a great portion) hobbyists graduate to marine aquariums.

Great points Neale.

I totally agree that freshwater fish account for a huge amount of total fish sales, but I dare to say 50% of the people buying freshwater don't care for their aquariums properly, such as cycling or frequent water changes. Everyone who has been enlightened by TFF or other knowledgeable resources do it properly, but these people make up such a small percentage of total freshwater fishkeepers. Every time I walk into a LFS or super pet center (IE Petco) 99% of the people have no idea what they're doing, you always hear questions like "Why are my fish all dieing?" or "I just bought that Sponge Bob Square Pants 1 gallon aquarium for my son, how come every time I put goldfish in it they die?", among MANY other questions. These people think their fish are dispensable, but why not? They were only $1 a piece. I don't blame the people (I too was one of them many years back) I blame the vast foolish information they are fed by the ''experts" at their LFS.

How come you don't hear such questions at reef shops? Because the prices are so high people want to make sure they are 'doing it right' and are usually accomplished freshwater keepers who know the ins and outs of the hobby so they know where to look for their information. Their fish now aren't so dispensable when they just laid down $400 for that protein skimmer.

I also agree with you Neale that the marine hobby is hurting ecosystems. That's why I personally almost always buy aquacultured fish, corals, and inverts. I don't think fish collecting is the major reason for the impact, but coral collection. Freshwater fish farms have been around forever, but the freshwater hobby has also been around forever. Until recently (10 years maybe) the marine hobby has been considered too hard for the average hobbyist to do, but with relatively recent advancements (live rock, effective protein skimmers, etc.) the marine hobby is no longer 'too hard' for the average hobbyist. With time, I believe marine aquaculture facilities will just as common as their freshwater counterparts.

"What I'd submit is that to marine aquarists it seems that their side of the hobby is the "natural evolution" of things. But that's often because marine aquarists don't explore the freshwater hobby in any great depth, so they get bored more quickly. They don't, for example, tend to be aquarists who enjoy breeding fish, which in my opinion is one of the very best aspects of the freshwater side of the hobby."
I don't know if that is true for most hobbyists. I personally have done many things from the freshwater hobby, I really can't think of anything I haven't done off the top of my head. I didn't get bored with the freshwater side, it's great, but I find marine aquariums more interesting.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[LisaLQ]

We do appreciate all comments received about the site. They are not ignored, although most of the points raised here will not be able to be acted upon immediately I will say that when I have finished my finals (end of May), I am looking to shake up the site a bit and make it a better place, so your suggestions for how this can be achieved are obviously greatly appreciated. I have bookmarked this page for reference, and will be bothering some of you in the future about specifics!
Thanks,will

TBH, I'd love a direct reply about why you turn a blind eye to bad practice on the TF4U thread, and yet ban decent members who - at least in my experience - ask folks to get in touch with them off site, so aren't even conducting a business on here (if you'd have asked me, instead of reading my posts and banning him because I said I'd bought from him - you'd know it was conducted via email through his website) or breaking any rules. It seems any business can be promoted as long as money exchanges hands - and yet those who aren't even abusing the site to promote bad business (unlike TF4U) are removed purely because they dont pay you. Purely because a couple of members, including me, said they had bought fish from them. Would you ban LFS that joined up if someone recommended them? I've not once seen this specific person promote a business on the boards, and yet he was banned for it. It's madness!

I think it's terribly sad that the bad are promoted, given banners, pushed on us - yet the good are banned for things they didn't do. And the person reporting them for conducting their business on here is doing just the same - yet getting away with it also. TF4U have repeatedly ignored requests to alter their really incorrect info on their site, and yet you're waving their banner proudly? Funny how their site was altered very quickly in the last couple of days since my last message about them - just as someone was banned

TBH William, I love this site, no doubt shall be banned for my comments, but your recent behaviour is very unprofessional.

 

[CFC]

The rules state that to advertise as a commercial enterprise you must have permision from the owner of the site (William), in order to gain this permission you have to pay a fee, as have all the site sponcers, in return for which you get a sub forum in which to post special offers and a banner at the top of the page.

Now if we let people who havent paid to advertise and sell through the site to conduct their business free of charge then it hardly seems fair to those who have paid, in fact why should they pay at all if all they have to do is stick a link in their signature and send a few PMs to people about what stock they have?

The site depends on the money recieved from sponcers to continue running, server space and board upgrades are not free and a site of this size uses a huge ammount of bandwidth so is not exactly cheap. If we allow non fee paying enterprises to conduct their business freely then the sponcers may choose not to continue their sponcership and the site has to close.

 

[LisaLQ]

all they have to do is stick a link in their signature and send a few PMs to people about what stock they have?

I rest my case, as that was exactly what was done. All business was done off-site. And yet as soon as I posted about getting fish from him, he was banned.

Hardly fair, if by your own explanation, he wasn't doing anything wrong

 

[Tolak]

all they have to do is stick a link in their signature and send a few PMs to people about what stock they have?

I rest my case, as that was exactly what was done. All business was done off-site. And yet as soon as I posted about getting fish from him, he was banned.

Hardly fair, if by your own explanation, he wasn't doing anything wrong

Wow. Talk about taking something out of context.

 

[LisaLQ]

Erm...how?

Is that seriously the best reply you could come up with? Nothing to add?

 

[pica_nuttalli]

I'd like to suggest that the debate regarding sponsorship be moved to a different thread. My reasoning is that:

(1) its a bit tangential to the original intent of this thread, which concerns the overall atmosphere as opposed to specific incidents.

(2) the issue does need examination and is more likely to recieve this examination in a unique discussion. some of the newer members might not be aware of this, but many of these specific complaints are ultimately relocated to the hidden moderator forum where they are debated by the mods. generally speaking, this upper-level debate results in change--one way or another.

(3) should this general debate degenerate into angry name-calling, there's a good chance that this thread will be closed.

 

[CFC]

all they have to do is stick a link in their signature and send a few PMs to people about what stock they have?

I rest my case, as that was exactly what was done. All business was done off-site. And yet as soon as I posted about getting fish from him, he was banned.

Hardly fair, if by your own explanation, he wasn't doing anything wrong

Errm, that is exactly what he WAS doing WRONG, if he wanted to use this site as venue for advertising and selling his fish then he should have contacted William and offered a sponcership subscription first as the other sponcers have and NOT just placed a link in his signature and used the sites personal message service as a contact media.
I personally removed a link from his signature not once but twice which shows a complete disregard for the rules of this site and the wishes of its owner.