Tetra Safe Start And Cycling My New Tank

[Prime Ordeal]

I guess I find it extremely hard to believe that treated tap water could come with any significant amount of beneficial bacteria.

And I think that is why you're having such a hard time getting to grips with this whole thing. The water authorities add chlorine or chloramines to the tap water supply to nuke any pathogenic bacteria in it and of course it will, if they're unprotected, kill the nitrifying bacteria that are also in the water. These bacteria live in a biofilm which gets sloughed off the walls of the supply pipes by the flow of water. The biofilm protects some of the bacteria from the worst effects of the added chloramines so that when we dechlorinate the supply water, they're ready to start reproducing again. That's how the bacteria get into our tanks.

 

[snazy]

I just tested the ammonia, pictures uploaded in in the initial post 1# and it seems it's down to 0 again.

So is it recommendable to dose up to 2ppm instead this time?

 

[Prime Ordeal]

So is it recommendable to dose up to 2ppm instead this time?

I don't see any need to raise it. The bacteria will kick in at the same time whether it's 1 or 2ppm.

 

[snazy]

OK. Thanks. I was thinking to dose more as it is easier to judge the colors when it goes down and also to see if it is the plants indeed that eat all that.
However, I just dosed another 3.5ml to bring the ammonia up to 1ppm. I will test in a while to confirm.

 

[snazy]

Pictures and log updated. I will keep you infirmed how it goes. Ammonia is back up to 1ppm

 

[afremont]

I guess I find it extremely hard to believe that treated tap water could come with any significant amount of beneficial bacteria.

And I think that is why you're having such a hard time getting to grips with this whole thing. The water authorities add chlorine or chloramines to the tap water supply to nuke any pathogenic bacteria in it and of course it will, if they're unprotected, kill the nitrifying bacteria that are also in the water. These bacteria live in a biofilm which gets sloughed off the walls of the supply pipes by the flow of water. The biofilm protects some of the bacteria from the worst effects of the added chloramines so that when we dechlorinate the supply water, they're ready to start reproducing again. That's how the bacteria get into our tanks.

That sounds plausable given an old enough distribution system I suppose. Though in all the junk I've read, and I admit that I haven't made an extreme effort regarding the fishless cycle, I never saw that explanation expressed anywhere. I also have to admit that I never looked into what bacteria made up the slime in the water pipes either. Thanks for the information, it's been enlightening. I really must quit taking the LFS guys word on some things though, he's embarrassed me a couple of times now.

 

[sheffieldlad]

I guess I find it extremely hard to believe that treated tap water could come with any significant amount of beneficial bacteria.

And I think that is why you're having such a hard time getting to grips with this whole thing. The water authorities add chlorine or chloramines to the tap water supply to nuke any pathogenic bacteria in it and of course it will, if they're unprotected, kill the nitrifying bacteria that are also in the water. These bacteria live in a biofilm which gets sloughed off the walls of the supply pipes by the flow of water. The biofilm protects some of the bacteria from the worst effects of the added chloramines so that when we dechlorinate the supply water, they're ready to start reproducing again. That's how the bacteria get into our tanks.

That sounds plausable given an old enough distribution system I suppose. Though in all the junk I've read, and I admit that I haven't made an extreme effort regarding the fishless cycle, I never saw that explanation expressed anywhere. I also have to admit that I never looked into what bacteria made up the slime in the water pipes either. Thanks for the information, it's been enlightening. I really must quit taking the LFS guys word on some things though, he's embarrassed me a couple of times now.

It is plausable and probably explains why we don't get lead poisoning from oyr domestic water supplies here in the UK.

 

[snazy]

Latest tests for day 9 updated under post 1# on page one.

There is finally a nitrIte reading but it is below 0.25ppm. Ammonia is 0.25ppm or less. NitrAte is either 10 or 20. I just can't make a difference between the two.
Ph is back to normal 7.6. Thankfully it wasn't the sand causing the raise.

 

[snazy]

Good morning

Tested the tank this morning at about 5.30 AM before work and updated the pictures and log on post 1/page 1
Ammonia is 0. NitrIte is detectable, but way below 0.25ppm and lower than last night, but it is a pure guess how much it is. NitrAte is again in the range 10-20ppm. Ph is 7.6.
I put another dose of 3.5ml ammonia but I won't be able to test and upload a picture as I am not at home now. I am presuming it is the usual 1ppm

 

[Prime Ordeal]

Looks like it's going to be a pretty standard cycle then with the Safe Start apparently doing nothing!

 

[snazy]

It seems so alright. However, I am yet to see how long more it will take.
The difference compared to my other two cycles that were done with fish is that ammonia previously went down to 0 in 5-6 days and nitrite spike lasted about a day and a half, not 2-3 weeks as in a normal fish in/fishless cycle.

 

[Dieses Madchen]

But there is no way to show that it was the safe start and not the plants helping you achieve these results. I bet your plants are looking very healthy and nice Can we see a pic of them?

 

[snazy]

I am not saying absolutely anything.
But if the cycle lasts as long as a normal fishless cycle, you are going to say Tetra safe start didn't work.
If the cycled finishes faster, you are going to say it was the plants.
If I didn't put plants in the tank, you are going to say I have made up the results.

So it is up to you what to think, I can't do anything about it. And I understand everyone is entitled to their own opinion.
At the moment I am just keeping the log, as it is unfare for people following it if I stop.

I will get a picture of the tank when I get back home tonight. The water is brownish, as the driftwood is still leaking. The plants are alive, but I had to remove a few dying leaves. Besides the slow growing anubias, I have two echinodorus plants, one cherry leaf plant that I can't remember the name of, and a brazilian pennywort.

 

[HayzH]

i believe you are doing his genuinely.

I just would have been curious to see it cycle without plants...as "most" newbies start with fake plants.

I had to abandon ALL my 4 cycles due to them not working. They have handled my bioloads straight away with no problems.

Hope you dont get a 200 day'er!! lol x

 

[afremont]

Looks like it's going to be a pretty standard cycle then with the Safe Start apparently doing nothing!

I guess one can drag the cycle out as long as they want by feeding the TSS ammonia in the same gradual doses that would be normally used in a fishless cycle. OTOH, one could just follow the manufacturers directions by putting fish in the tank, dumping in the bottle and monitoring the water like I have no less than six times. In my personal experience, the stuff works, plain and simple. There is obviously enough bacteria in the bottle to assume any normal bioload right from the start. As I said before, I personally put nine DGs into a 20 gallon tank, everything was brand new and had never been used. I dumped in one bottle of TSS for tanks up to 30 gallons and it took right off. There was never any significant ammonia level (only what I usually see right out of the tap) or any measurable nitrItes. The DGs have since been split up by moving five of the less aggressive fish to another never used 20 gallon tank. That tank was also started with 2/3 of a bottle of TSS. Fish are all fine, just like the water parameters.