Tetra Safe Start And Cycling My New Tank

[eaglesaquarium]

I Agree.
I got the grief about the plant stuff a couple of pages back. Please read the whole thread as this was already discussed.
At the moment, I am keeping a log of cycling my tank with plants. So far the plants seems to have eaten about 0.75ppm ammonia in five days and don't find the nitrates tasty at all. At the end of the cycle I am expecting some monstrous anubias breaking through the cover of my fish tank

On a side note, how long does it take to do a fishless cycle with ammonia? When should I normally expect a nitrite reading?

I read enough to note the plants issue, but the first post isn't including that information. I would suggest that you update the OP to reflect the steps that you are taking in this trial of the product rather than previous experiences. If a newbie were to come along and read only the first post, they would be under a mistaken impression.



As far as a fishless cycle goes, there are a LOT of variables that go into the duration and it can be hard to predict. Some folks (HayzH, for example) have had a fishless cycle that lasted several months. On the other hand, some folks can have the entire process completed in as little as 3 weeks. It all comes down to a bunch of variables, some of which are understood, many of which are not yet.

 

[snazy]

When you're using Tetra safe start, as you are, you should see nitrite on day two or three at the latest. If not then something is wrong with the tank conditions or you've got a duff batch of Safe Start (and that''s quite possible because it's storage temperature range is 0-30C).

Not really. Have you used tetra safe start yourself? When I cycled the other two tanks with fish, I got low nitrite reading on day 5 if I remember correct and on day 6 the nitrites had spiked and ammonia gone down barely detectable, so it took longer than the 2nd or 3rd day for any nitrite reading.

This time something is not right, as I am not getting any increase of nitrites or nitrates so far at all. I am inclined to think I have an oxygen problem as this tank is so deep and the splash on the surface by some low quality APS filters may not be doing too much.

Good point did you mean a normal cycle or one with bottle/mature media ?

Thanks for answering. I am not using even a drop of water from my other tanks.
Obviously I have put tetra safe start and have plants in too. The results are somewhat strange as there is no nitrites, ammonia is going down and nitrates are staying the same.
I presume at the moment that the tetra safe start is not working, the naturally obtained bacteria is not growing and the decrease of ammonia is because of the plants instead.

So I am preparing for a long normal fishless cycle

I was just about to add the plants on the list of conditions, but I can't edit my post anymore. I only got the reply button

 

[eaglesaquarium]

I was just about to add the plants on the list of conditions, but I can't edit my post anymore. I only got the reply button

If I were you, I'd PM a mod, because you'll want to still be able to update your readings as you proceed as well. Maybe they can figure out why the edit button isn't there.

 

[snazy]

I was just about to add the plants on the list of conditions, but I can't edit my post anymore. I only got the reply button

If I were you, I'd PM a mod, because you'll want to still be able to update your readings as you proceed as well. Maybe they can figure out why the edit button isn't there.

I saw Tolak around, so I just pm'ed him.

 

[snazy]

I am still not able to edit the initial post but post 61# is still active and I've uploaded todays picture there, and also here below.
To me this is as yellow as it has ever been on the Api test for any of my tanks,although the other two are cycled, so I think ammonia is 0. I dosed 3.5 ml again and will test the water in a while to let it spread first. Nitrite is still 0, nitrate is pale orange. Ph is slightly paler, maybe 8.0.
The good part is the temperature is rock solid. I have an option on the thermometer to check min and max temperature recorded and the min it has been is 26.8, the max 27 degrees.

Day 1: added 3.5 ml ammonia
ammonia-1ppm, nitrIte-0, nitrAte-5ppm, ph-7.6, temp-26.8

Day2:no ammonia added
ammonia-1ppm, nitrIte-0, nitrAte-5ppm, ph-8.2, temp-26.8

Day3:no ammonia added
ammonia-0.50ppm, nitrIte-0, nitrAte-7ppm, ph-8.2, temp-26.8

Day4:no ammonia added
ammonia-0.50ppm, nitrIte-0, nitrAte-5ppm, ph-8.2, temp -26.9

Day5:no ammonia added
ammonia-between 0.25-0.50ppm, nitrIte-0, nitrAte-5ppm, ph-8.2, temp-26.8

Day6:added 3.5 ml ammonia
before ammonia added ammonia-0, nitrIte-0, nitrAte-between 3-5 ppm, ph-8.0, temp-26.8
after 3.5 ml dose ammonia-1ppm, no other tests done

 

[eaglesaquarium]

Those are some strange results... A drop in Nitrate indicates that the plants are using it, but I would also suggest that the plants may also be using the ammonia.

 

[snazy]

Yeah, strange results. I think that the plants have eaten the whole lot of ammonia, that's why no nitrites and nitrates are rathing turning paler, unless there is another reason, but I can't have my hopes on it until I see the ammonia dropping way faster. I will have a better picture on what's happening within the next few days I guess

I hope I don't break HayzH's record for longest fishless cycling (only joking Hayz, hope the fish are getting better)


I just tested the ammonia after I dosed with 3.5 ml and here is the pic. It is back to 1ppm.

 

[snazy]

I moved everything to this post as I am afraid post 61# will expire soon too and I'll lose the pictures.

Ammonia has dropped in half. Ph is a very light version of 8.2. Nitrate is back to an orange colour and is at least 5ppm. Nitrite is bold 0

Pictures and log of all the tests day by day below:

Day1:Before 3.5 ml of ammonia was added

Day2:

Day3:

Day4:

Day5:

Day6:

Day6:3.5ml ammonia added

Day7:

Log:

Day 1: added 3.5 ml ammonia
ammonia-1ppm, nitrIte-0, nitrAte-5ppm, ph-7.6, temp-26.8

Day2:no ammonia added
ammonia-1ppm, nitrIte-0, nitrAte-5ppm, ph-8.2, temp-26.8

Day3:no ammonia added
ammonia-0.50ppm, nitrIte-0, nitrAte-7ppm, ph-8.2, temp-26.8

Day4:no ammonia added
ammonia-0.50ppm, nitrIte-0, nitrAte-5ppm, ph-8.2, temp -26.9

Day5:no ammonia added
ammonia-between 0.25-0.50ppm, nitrIte-0, nitrAte-5ppm, ph-8.2, temp-26.8

Day6:added 3.5 ml ammonia
before ammonia added ammonia-0, nitrIte-0, nitrAte-between 3-5 ppm, ph-8.0, temp-26.8
after 3.5 ml dose: ammonia-1ppm, no other tests done

Day7:no ammonia added
ammonia-0.50ppm, nitrIte-0, nitrAte-5ppm, ph-8.2, temp-26.9

 

[eaglesaquarium]

Personally, I wouldn't put a lot of stock in the nitrate readings since they are bouncing so close to 5ppm and it is known that the API nitrate test can be very finicky.

It will be hard to get a real grasp on what is going on with such low concentrations of ammonia and nitrate, especially with the plants in the mix to confuse the readings more.

 

[snazy]

Yeah, it's hard to judge these colours. I was wondering, once the ammonia goes down again is it a good idea to increase the next dose?

 

[ainsy]

I know there is a lot of debate about whether bottled bacteria work or not but I thought I should share my experience with you.

Please don't think this is a claim and scientifically would certainly be considered as anecdotal evidence.

I recently returned after nearly 20 years of keeping a reef tank (life in turmoil means keeping a reef was just toooooo expensive!)

There was no use of mature media from anywhere - tank stripped bare, brand new fx5 (didn't use a canister on the reef). I was well aware of the usual cycling methods and was just too impatient!!

So I thought I would try the bacteria (Safe start) & be prepared to do daily high % water changes with RO water the second any of the levels started to go up.

Day 1 - Added substrate & 100% RO water (with remineral)
Day 2 - Planted (quite heavily!) added fish (quite a few!) and the bacteria
Day 3 - Made up enough RO for a water change (being pesimistic!)

Then tested - Ammonia 0, nitrite 0 & nitrate 10

Then picked my jaw up off the floor!

- so I did a small water change (not the 50+ % that I was expecting to have to do!)

The cycle seems to be complete - i tested water daily for the first 2 weeks, then went to 3x/week for another 2 etc. and there hasn't been any sign of ammonia or nitrite.

Tank has been running for 2 1/2 months now and (touching all available wood!) no problems

(nervously checks tank for tempting providence!)


Obviously I can't attribute this to the bacteria - the heavy planting may have influenced this.


ps. I DO NOT recommend attempting this method if you are new to the hobby - I have many years experience and knew what risks I was taking & how to deal with problems had they arisen

 

[eaglesaquarium]

Obviously I can't attribute this to the bacteria - the heavy planting may have influenced this.


ps. I DO NOT recommend attempting this method if you are new to the hobby - I have many years experience and knew what risks I was taking & how to deal with problems had they arisen

I agree with this.

 

[Prime Ordeal]

Day 2 - Planted (quite heavily!) added fish (quite a few!) and the bacteria......

Obviously I can't attribute this to the bacteria - the heavy planting may have influenced this.

A nice anecdotal account ainsy but in no way a plus or minus for Tetra Safe Start.

 

[ainsy]

That is why I mentioned it!

I was just wondering if anyone would come in and say whether they had similar experience just using plants and whether they could be the sole cause of the fast cycle

 

[Prime Ordeal]

Ainsy, it's quite possible to 'cycle' with just plants and many people have. That is, they use so many plants that they take up all the ammonia in the tank (from whatever source) and thus provide a lasting and instant 'cycle' - no filter required. The stocking level has to be smaller than usual and you have to ensure that the plants remain healthy, but as long as you do that, the method works fine. You have to use a lot of fast growing plants though.

You may be interested in a very good book by Diana Walstad titled 'The Ecology Of The Planted Tank'. It goes into great detail about her method of using plants as the 'filter', but her method includes a soil substrate for the plants and several other complications. A really good and educational read.