Im not sure the Gourami would be able to handle the high heats that the Discus and Rams need - Also I would go for a trio of the Apistos rather than a pair, its a good sized tank but I think 1 female would get too stressed.
Wills
Wills
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Suggestions For 4X2X2
- Thread starter Gidge
- Start date
RobRocksFishTank
Moved On
I, too, have my doubts about gouramies being a good choice as tank-mates for the discus for the reasons mentioned above.
RobRocksFishTank
Moved On
Just because they can handle the high temps doesn't mean that they should be kept in them permanently. Recommended temps are lower.
I'd be more concerned about the aggression. Because of the body shape, a discus might be confused as another gourami and they can be aggressive amongst themselves.
I'd be more concerned about the aggression. Because of the body shape, a discus might be confused as another gourami and they can be aggressive amongst themselves.
Gidge said:
I'd suggest that jullis aren't your best option as far as the cories go either... unfortunately.
Sterbai would be a far better choice for that temp range. Jullis (if you can actually find the 'true' cories) top out at around 78F, trilineatus (which are often sold as julli) top out at about 77F. Sterbai max out at about 82F. C. aeneus can handle up to 80F.
Another thing to remember, its also not a great idea to keep the fish at their max temps all the time, as this generally shortens their life span.
This thread has gone back and forth a bit over fish combinations. I would like to offer a couple general comments on the "ideas," even though the OP seems to be moving away from some of them (wise).
When one is considering discus, you are in a very specialized area. Your tank is sized well for a group of discus (7-9 or thereabouts) but as soon as you decide this you are very limited by the high temperature and compatibility issues. Discus must have warmth, 82F is what most suggest as minimum. And as someone noted, other fish that may "tolerate" such warmth should not be subjected to it permanently; extremes of low and high in the temperature range for a species are only meant as guides as to what temporary temperatures should be tolerated by the species. Keeping any fish at the high end of its "range" will lessen its lifespan and often contribute to health issues. Water stability is critical, as someone else mentioned. Plants can work, if done properly. As for combining angelfish, this is not advisable; regardless of the fact that some may have had this work (though to what extent is not always easy to determine, as fish "managing" is not the same as fish "thriving") every reputable discus authority will advise against it.
Gourami are not good tankmates for discus or angelfish for that matter, as the gourami are very much like cichlids in their temperaments and territorial needs. However, as you have the space, this would be an excellent setup for the beautiful Pearl Gourami, which is a largish fish but less inclined to nastiness than some similarly-sized gourami, and not often seen to the best advantage when relegated to a small tank. A group would be stunning in a planted tank. Any of the corydoras species would be OK, and for mid- to upper-water fish you could look at many of the medium rasboras [the "dwarf" species as those in Boraras might end up being eaten] and the quieter peaceful tetras. Avoid active fish, as the gourami are sedate and will not appreciate "relay" swimming fish around them.
You asked about numbers...I would say 4-5 males and 7-8 females. More females than males is good with most gourami, as it allows the females to have some respite from the attentions of the males.
Byron.
When one is considering discus, you are in a very specialized area. Your tank is sized well for a group of discus (7-9 or thereabouts) but as soon as you decide this you are very limited by the high temperature and compatibility issues. Discus must have warmth, 82F is what most suggest as minimum. And as someone noted, other fish that may "tolerate" such warmth should not be subjected to it permanently; extremes of low and high in the temperature range for a species are only meant as guides as to what temporary temperatures should be tolerated by the species. Keeping any fish at the high end of its "range" will lessen its lifespan and often contribute to health issues. Water stability is critical, as someone else mentioned. Plants can work, if done properly. As for combining angelfish, this is not advisable; regardless of the fact that some may have had this work (though to what extent is not always easy to determine, as fish "managing" is not the same as fish "thriving") every reputable discus authority will advise against it.
Gourami are not good tankmates for discus or angelfish for that matter, as the gourami are very much like cichlids in their temperaments and territorial needs. However, as you have the space, this would be an excellent setup for the beautiful Pearl Gourami, which is a largish fish but less inclined to nastiness than some similarly-sized gourami, and not often seen to the best advantage when relegated to a small tank. A group would be stunning in a planted tank. Any of the corydoras species would be OK, and for mid- to upper-water fish you could look at many of the medium rasboras [the "dwarf" species as those in Boraras might end up being eaten] and the quieter peaceful tetras. Avoid active fish, as the gourami are sedate and will not appreciate "relay" swimming fish around them.
You asked about numbers...I would say 4-5 males and 7-8 females. More females than males is good with most gourami, as it allows the females to have some respite from the attentions of the males.
Byron.
Thanks Byron, that is some really good information. I have decided to put off the discus for the time being as there are a lot of fish I would like to keep (some new and some again) and I have more options going this way.
I 100% would like a pair of rams, and as mentioned previously by another poster a trio of Apistos. I plan to have a lot of coverage in the tank, lots of 'territories'. I've kept rams before so I know what they're like with claiming territory. Much the same as Kribensis I found.
I 100% would like a pair of rams, and as mentioned previously by another poster a trio of Apistos. I plan to have a lot of coverage in the tank, lots of 'territories'. I've kept rams before so I know what they're like with claiming territory. Much the same as Kribensis I found.
RobRocksFishTank
Moved On
Such a sad ending. I thought you were set on the discus and was really looking forward to seeing your discus in that tank. I have the same tank and would have loved to do discus but the pH of my tap water pretty much prohibits that.
Haha sorry Rob. I will put Discus in it eventually, just not right now.RobRocksFishTank said:
I'm having trouble at the moment finding substrate I like. Does any one know of nice black sand other than Moon Sand?
Picking up on the cichlid issues from post #25, my advice would be not to mix species in the same tank. Either the rams or an Apistogramma species would (or should) be OK with the gourami [this is the one area where combining gourami and cichlids can work] but mixing the "dwarf" cichlid species is not a good idea.
On the sand question, if you want black you are pretty much confined to the expensive aquarium brands. I have heard there is a black pool sand available from some quarry/landscape sources, but have not seen it myself. My choice in sand is regular play sand. Some brands are dark grey and this replicates almost exactly the sands in Amazonian streams that have sand (many are mud, with leaf litter). It is a mix of black, white, grey and tan coloured grains. I did once have straight black, which coloured a foggy grey under the tank lighting, and it showed every scrap of detritus which the play sand does not. If you still intend corys, play sand is the best way to go in my opinion. It is the most refined of the commercial sands so it is not rough and ideally suited to substrate fish that dig into it or sift it through their gills as corys and the dwarf cichlids will do. I have seven tanks at present in my fish room, and six have play sand.
Byron.
On the sand question, if you want black you are pretty much confined to the expensive aquarium brands. I have heard there is a black pool sand available from some quarry/landscape sources, but have not seen it myself. My choice in sand is regular play sand. Some brands are dark grey and this replicates almost exactly the sands in Amazonian streams that have sand (many are mud, with leaf litter). It is a mix of black, white, grey and tan coloured grains. I did once have straight black, which coloured a foggy grey under the tank lighting, and it showed every scrap of detritus which the play sand does not. If you still intend corys, play sand is the best way to go in my opinion. It is the most refined of the commercial sands so it is not rough and ideally suited to substrate fish that dig into it or sift it through their gills as corys and the dwarf cichlids will do. I have seven tanks at present in my fish room, and six have play sand.
Byron.
Gidge said:
I will be purchasing some 'Ceramaquartz' black sand from a somewhat local construction supply company soon. I've not tried it yet myself, but it will cost me $25 for 50 lbs, so I'm pretty excited for the price. Much more reasonable than I've seen for other materials.
This material is supposed to be completely inert, and rounded off, which makes it far more safe for cories. I don't know if you can find it in Australia. But, I did speak with Alasse, who is a member here and lives in Australia. She found black quartz sand for aquarium use in a local pet shop. Might be worth a look around.
Thanks for all the info on the sand. I had a look for that ceramaquartz but didn't have any luck. I think I'll just stick to the moon sand. My Panda Corys seem to love it in my other tank. I did look at the ADA Amazonian Soil, but read that it doesn't last a long time and turns to a clay/mud - I don't really want to have to dig up my tank to put new substrate down every year or two!
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