Striped kuhli loaches

[Rocky998]

My suggestion is to go with either the kuhli loaches or cories, but not both together. I know Ian Fuller does not advise keeping loaches and cories together, and admittedly this likely refers to the botine loaches (Botia and similar genera species which can be much more forceful over food and space) though maybe kuhli as well. The other thing is that I most certainly would not keep Corydoras pygmaeus in with loaches of any species including kuhli. I'm not thinking as much of aggression but more of just providing a quiet environment for the cories. I might be concerned for the pygmy cories in with the gobies for that matter.

Ive heard that PGs are really peaceful but I understand that things happen... Maybe I can do salt and pepper cories or panda cories. Wdyt?

 

[anewbie]

Byron point wasn't aggression. It is that the cory will constantly be startled by the kuhli which at times can be quite active. I know in my 29's the kuhli can be super active at night. I actually have sterbai and kuhli together and they mostly ignore each others but the sterbai are a rather large but timid cory; but in that tank the kuli themselves are pretty timid; also they mostly just glass surf at night which doesn't really bother the cory. pygmy are a very nervous cory and @Byron thought is the kuli swimming will startled them.
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kuhli are extremely passive and aggression between kuhli and cory are the least of your concern.
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Btw when i had pygmy with kribs something kind of amusing happened which might interest @Byron. The kribs kept the area around their breeding cave (they dug a pit under some driftwood) completely clear so the pgymy would always stay right in front. After a while the kribs got used to them and would allow the pygmy to feed with their frys. This worked out well the pygmy coudl just follow the kribs around eating and not worry about any other fishes showing up....

 

[hansgruber7]

Ok. What tank size do you have?

20 gallon.

 

[Rocky998]

Byron point wasn't aggression. It is that the cory will constantly be startled by the kuhli which at times can be quite active. I know in my 29's the kuhli can be super active at night. I actually have sterbai and kuhli together and they mostly ignore each others but the sterbai are a rather large but timid cory; but in that tank the kuli themselves are pretty timid; also they mostly just glass surf at night which doesn't really bother the cory. pygmy are a very nervous cory and @Byron thought is the kuli swimming will startled them.
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kuhli are extremely passive and aggression between kuhli and cory are the least of your concern.
-
Btw when i had pygmy with kribs something kind of amusing happened which might interest @Byron. The kribs kept the area around their breeding cave (they dug a pit under some driftwood) completely clear so the pgymy would always stay right in front. After a while the kribs got used to them and would allow the pygmy to feed with their frys. This worked out well the pygmy coudl just follow the kribs around eating and not worry about any other fishes showing up....

He also said that he was concerned with the gudgeons and the cories Thats why I said that the PGs are not aggressive. But I understand what you're saying.

 

[Rocky998]

20 gallon.

long or high? I only ask because that changes a lot. Thank you.

 

[anewbie]

long or high? I only ask because that changes a lot. Thank you.

He stated at the start of this thread he has a 20 high and cannot change it.

 

[Byron]

Byron point wasn't aggression. It is that the cory will constantly be startled by the kuhli which at times can be quite active. I know in my 29's the kuhli can be super active at night. I actually have sterbai and kuhli together and they mostly ignore each others but the sterbai are a rather large but timid cory; but in that tank the kuli themselves are pretty timid; also they mostly just glass surf at night which doesn't really bother the cory. pygmy are a very nervous cory and @Byron thought is the kuli swimming will startled them.
-
kuhli are extremely passive and aggression between kuhli and cory are the least of your concern.
-
Btw when i had pygmy with kribs something kind of amusing happened which might interest @Byron. The kribs kept the area around their breeding cave (they dug a pit under some driftwood) completely clear so the pgymy would always stay right in front. After a while the kribs got used to them and would allow the pygmy to feed with their frys. This worked out well the pygmy coudl just follow the kribs around eating and not worry about any other fishes showing up....

"Aggression" seems to have gotten out of context; loaches tend to be more "aggressive" in feeding, nothing to do with physical, territorial or similar "aggression." Agree on the activity level issue.

It remains that loaches and cories should not be together on general principle, and in a tank this small, and with the C. pygmaeus, don't risk it.

Not surprised by the kribs/cories. Individual fish do not read the scientific literature and may behave contrary to the expected or the normal, whatever. But many fish will readily "learn" they have nothing to fear from "x". I had a male Bolivian Ram in my 54-foot 115g Amazon river tank for nine years--not bad for a species with a normal lifespan of 4-5 years. He owned that entire space, and every one of the other 160 or so fish knew it. Being a substrate feeder, he could be expected to get into tiffs with the 60+ cories, but aside from a bit of pushing out of his way when he was feeding from a tablet, pellet or disk, nothing occurred. I introduced a female once early on, and they spawned three times before he killed her (they had not bonded, something I did not appreciate at the time but in hindsight can see this was the source of the odd back-and-forth relationship of the two rams over their brief period of a few months). None of the other fish got hurt by this pair. The other interesting thing was that he tolerated any of the spotted patterned Corydoras, such as C. schwartzi, C. leucomolas, etc, but would not allow the other non-spotted species (C. duplicareus, C. davidsandsi, etc) to be in the vicinity of "his" tablet/pellet/disk when he was feeding. At other times he ignored all of the cories. And I used to see him keeping the shoal of Bleeding Heart Tetras in line; they were tightly shoaled together mid-tank, with the Bolivian just cruising around above the substrate--but every time one of the Tetras made a move to leave the group, the Ram would come half way toward them and they immediately re-grouped. He owned that entire tank space.

 

[Rocky998]

He stated at the start of this thread he has a 20 high and cannot change it.

that was me lol... I think you thought it was someone else

 

[Rocky998]

"Aggression" seems to have gotten out of context; loaches tend to be more "aggressive" in feeding, nothing to do with physical, territorial or similar "aggression." Agree on the activity level issue.

It remains that loaches and cories should not be together on general principle, and in a tank this small, and with the C. pygmaeus, don't risk it.

Not surprised by the kribs/cories. Individual fish do not read the scientific literature and may behave contrary to the expected or the normal, whatever. But many fish will readily "learn" they have nothing to fear from "x". I had a male Bolivian Ram in my 54-foot 115g Amazon river tank for nine years--not bad for a species with a normal lifespan of 4-5 years. He owned that entire space, and every one of the other 160 or so fish knew it. Being a substrate feeder, he could be expected to get into tiffs with the 60+ cories, but aside from a bit of pushing out of his way when he was feeding from a tablet, pellet or disk, nothing occurred. I introduced a female once early on, and they spawned three times before he killed her (they had not bonded, something I did not appreciate at the time but in hindsight can see this was the source of the odd back-and-forth relationship of the two rams over their brief period of a few months). None of the other fish got hurt by this pair. The other interesting thing was that he tolerated any of the spotted patterned Corydoras, such as C. schwartzi, C. leucomolas, etc, but would not allow the other non-spotted species (C. duplicareus, C. davidsandsi, etc) to be in the vicinity of "his" tablet/pellet/disk when he was feeding. At other times he ignored all of the cories. And I used to see him keeping the shoal of Bleeding Heart Tetras in line; they were tightly shoaled together mid-tank, with the Bolivian just cruising around above the substrate--but every time one of the Tetras made a move to leave the group, the Ram would come half way toward them and they immediately re-grouped. He owned that entire tank space.

I dont want both... Just one or the other. Yah, I have heard that rams can be bossy. Fish are some intriguing creatures...

 

[coriesinhawaii]

My suggestion is to go with either the kuhli loaches or cories, but not both together. I know Ian Fuller does not advise keeping loaches and cories together, and admittedly this likely refers to the botine loaches (Botia and similar genera species which can be much more forceful over food and space) though maybe kuhli as well. The other thing is that I most certainly would not keep Corydoras pygmaeus in with loaches of any species including kuhli. I'm not thinking as much of aggression but more of just providing a quiet environment for the cories. I might be concerned for the pygmy cories in with the gobies for that matter.

I can’t say for other kinds of loaches but the kuhlis get along fine with the cories (peppered and sterbai) in my setup. Might be another one of those situations where it just depends on a number of interacting factors whether it works well or not.

Probably the more kuhlis you have the more likely it is to create too much activity for the cories, especially in smaller tanks. I’ve seen videos of large groups of kuhlis really thrashing around together, especially at feeding time. I certainly wouldn’t have that going on in my Cory tank. In my tank they mostly hang out in different areas and when I feed I spread the food out over a large area of the tank to reduce competition. Everyone is chill because they don’t have to fight over one or two pellets of food. I only have 4 kuhlis to 8 cories. Ratio probably important too.

 

[anewbie]

"Aggression" seems to have gotten out of context; loaches tend to be more "aggressive" in feeding, nothing to do with physical, territorial or similar "aggression." Agree on the activity level issue.

It remains that loaches and cories should not be together on general principle, and in a tank this small, and with the C. pygmaeus, don't risk it.

Not surprised by the kribs/cories. Individual fish do not read the scientific literature and may behave contrary to the expected or the normal, whatever. But many fish will readily "learn" they have nothing to fear from "x". I had a male Bolivian Ram in my 54-foot 115g Amazon river tank for nine years--not bad for a species with a normal lifespan of 4-5 years. He owned that entire space, and every one of the other 160 or so fish knew it. Being a substrate feeder, he could be expected to get into tiffs with the 60+ cories, but aside from a bit of pushing out of his way when he was feeding from a tablet, pellet or disk, nothing occurred. I introduced a female once early on, and they spawned three times before he killed her (they had not bonded, something I did not appreciate at the time but in hindsight can see this was the source of the odd back-and-forth relationship of the two rams over their brief period of a few months). None of the other fish got hurt by this pair. The other interesting thing was that he tolerated any of the spotted patterned Corydoras, such as C. schwartzi, C. leucomolas, etc, but would not allow the other non-spotted species (C. duplicareus, C. davidsandsi, etc) to be in the vicinity of "his" tablet/pellet/disk when he was feeding. At other times he ignored all of the cories. And I used to see him keeping the shoal of Bleeding Heart Tetras in line; they were tightly shoaled together mid-tank, with the Bolivian just cruising around above the substrate--but every time one of the Tetras made a move to leave the group, the Ram would come half way toward them and they immediately re-grouped. He owned that entire tank space.

Byron I get what you are saying but my first hand experience hasn't been the same with regards to mixing loaches and cory. I have clown loaches, zebra loaches and yoyo with my sterbai in a 120 and quite frankly even at feeding time there hasn't been much of an issue with the loaches pushing or abusing the cory. The clowns are probably about 7 times the mass of the cory and the largest yoyo can challenge my clown. I worry most about the yoyo as they are a bit less predictable. I will admit the clowns at time shove each other and when i first go them a couple of years ago and they were under-weight one particular skinny one was quite aggressive when feeding to the point of attacking any fish that came near but after he put a bit of weight on that behavior went away. The two largest clowns are probably pushing 6 inches and they do fight a bit but no too aggressively and no where close to what the angels do. Having said that long term when i move next year I do intend to move the sterbai into a ram tank and sep them from the loaches. This has more to do with tank stocking than conflict between the fishes. Of the four loaches mentioned clown, zebra, yoyo and kuhli the kuhli and zebra i've never seen aggressive torwards food and the only real issue i could see (even with the smaller pygmy) is movement disturbing the pygmy though I found the pymgy quite adpative and of all the cory i've kept they seem to learn the fastest what is and is not safe for them and react accordingly.
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WIth regards to the op his biggest problem is tank size. And base on tank size alone i would not mix cory and loaches and rather generate a larger school of the one.
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To be honest I would be more concern about mixing a pleco - even the popular bn - with pygmy as nearly all the larger bn i've had have shown quite a bit of aggression around food no matter how well fed they are or how much they have just eaten. Of course pygmy would avoid the conflict but i've had upside down cat and pleco really get into a few times when the pleco try to claim the cat's food. Even the more passive clown pleco has shown some determination at time when it comes to food. Again this is not relevant to the tank being discussed since it is too small; but generically pleco in my experience are significantly more problematic esp since they are always up to actual fighting and not just posturing.
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Having said this i know there are loaches far more aggressive in all manners than the ones i've mentioned.

 

[Rocky998]

Byron I get what you are saying but my first hand experience hasn't been the same with regards to mixing loaches and cory. I have clown loaches, zebra loaches and yoyo with my sterbai in a 120 and quite frankly even at feeding time there hasn't been much of an issue with the loaches pushing or abusing the cory. The clowns are probably about 7 times the mass of the cory and the largest yoyo can challenge my clown. I worry most about the yoyo as they are a bit less predictable. I will admit the clowns at time shove each other and when i first go them a couple of years ago and they were under-weight one particular skinny one was quite aggressive when feeding to the point of attacking any fish that came near but after he put a bit of weight on that behavior went away. The two largest clowns are probably pushing 6 inches and they do fight a bit but no too aggressively and no where close to what the angels do. Having said that long term when i move next year I do intend to move the sterbai into a ram tank and sep them from the loaches. This has more to do with tank stocking than conflict between the fishes. Of the four loaches mentioned clown, zebra, yoyo and kuhli the kuhli and zebra i've never seen aggressive torwards food and the only real issue i could see (even with the smaller pygmy) is movement disturbing the pygmy though I found the pymgy quite adpative and of all the cory i've kept they seem to learn the fastest what is and is not safe for them and react accordingly.
-
WIth regards to the op his biggest problem is tank size. And base on tank size alone i would not mix cory and loaches and rather generate a larger school of the one.
-
To be honest I would be more concern about mixing a pleco - even the popular bn - with pygmy as nearly all the larger bn i've had have shown quite a bit of aggression around food no matter how well fed they are or how much they have just eaten. Of course pygmy would avoid the conflict but i've had upside down cat and pleco really get into a few times when the pleco try to claim the cat's food. Even the more passive clown pleco has shown some determination at time when it comes to food. Again this is not relevant to the tank being discussed since it is too small; but generically pleco in my experience are significantly more problematic esp since they are always up to actual fighting and not just posturing.
-
Having said this i know there are loaches far more aggressive in all manners than the ones i've mentioned.

And we must remember... Just cause a fish type is labeled "aggressive" or "non-aggressive" does not mean they can have a different attitude. Just like dogs. Ive heard horrific stories about pitbulls but ive met a lot of sweet pits. All animals, no matter what type, have their own attitudes...

 

[anewbie]

And we must remember... Just cause a fish type is labeled "aggressive" or "non-aggressive" does not mean they can have a different attitude. Just like dogs. Ive heard horrific stories about pitbulls but ive met a lot of sweet pits. All animals, no matter what type, have their own attitudes...

Well of course but in my description i've multiple entities of each across different tanks. I have around 10 bn (bristlenose pleco); .... I would say that a pattern has been established but that does not mean there are more bold or passive member of each species.

 

[Rocky998]

Well of course but in my description i've multiple entities of each across different tanks. I have around 10 bn (bristlenose pleco); .... I would say that a pattern has been established but that does not mean there are more bold or passive member of each species.

It can also be your setup/environment that makes them feel like their safe... Or you've gotten lucky. Some people say bettas arent good community fish (most likely cause they've had a lot of territorial or aggressive bettas). While others say their just fine for community tanks (most likely because they havent had an issue with betta aggression). So it just depends

 

[Byron]

It can also be your setup/environment that makes them feel like their safe... Or you've gotten lucky. Some people say bettas arent good community fish (most likely cause they've had a lot of territorial or aggressive bettas). While others say their just fine for community tanks (most likely because they havent had an issue with betta aggression). So it just depends

But the wise aquarist will assume the "norm" and does not try to prove it wrong. As for cories together with loaches, if someone with the level of knowledge and experience of Ian Fuller says they should not be together, that is the answer if one cares about their fish. I have never believed in experimenting just to be able to say, "ha, the books are wrong." That is not responsible fish keeping.

Edit. And before it is mentioned, let me say that I am not suggesting anyone in this thread is deliberately "experimenting" or knowingly providing an inappropriate environment for their fish. Many of us, myself included, have made mistakes over the years. I am on this forum because I care about fish, and would like to see others have success. And one of the best ways to achieve success is to know the fish species and provide the best environment we can. "This" or "that" may work, so far as we can see, but that does not for one moment mean the fish are not being negatively impacted. Fish like all animals have a very strong will to survive, and this means they will try to make the best of the situation we put them in, whether it be good or bad.