Still Struggling With Ammonia

[AKGrown]

Okay i'm even more puzzled by today. I did a 50% water change this morning and got the ammonia down to 0.25 ppm. Then waited several hours and did another water change, 25%. Tested again and it was back up! So I did another water change just now about 20% and added 5x the dosage of prime in hopes of detoxifying it enough for my pets! I am utterly confuzed. I havent done anything different but remove the cuttle fish bone.

 

[waterdrop]

OK, you're being too "wimpy" on your water change percentages. I'm not sure what's causing you to hesitate but if it takes 75% changes to get you down in the "under 0.25ppm" area and keep you there for a while so you can go out and have a life, then that's what you need to do. Don't worry about the bacteria, they will get enough ammonia to survive and when the filter isn't cycled, the fish need to be protected from the ammonia and nitrite getting above 0.25ppm, which is something that will hurt them much more than any water changes or pH variability.

Later on, once your filter is cycled again, you may be a candidate for a small amount of crushed coral in your filter, we'll have to see. We don't like to jump in to that too fast and its nice to have lots of different members look the situation over in case I or any of the others make a mistake or miss things.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[AKGrown]

OK, you're being too "wimpy" on your water change percentages. I'm not sure what's causing you to hesitate but if it takes 75% changes to get you down in the "under 0.25ppm" area and keep you there for a while so you can go out and have a life, then that's what you need to do. Don't worry about the bacteria, they will get enough ammonia to survive and when the filter isn't cycled, the fish need to be protected from the ammonia and nitrite getting above 0.25ppm, which is something that will hurt them much more than any water changes or pH variability.

Later on, once your filter is cycled again, you may be a candidate for a small amount of crushed coral in your filter, we'll have to see. We don't like to jump in to that too fast and its nice to have lots of different members look the situation over in case I or any of the others make a mistake or miss things.

~~waterdrop~~

Thank you! I will do a 75% change in just a little while hopefully things will start to look better.

 

[angel-al]

dont know if this will help but our tap water is very soft where i work with a kh of 1. if we dont buffer it with coral sand or kh powder we get ammonia. our tap water also contains 0.2 ammonia. we were struggling to get the ammonia down in one pond for weeks despite daily water changes so i stuck some kh powder in. i know its not recommended but voila ammonia disappered in 2 days and ph stable. we test water every few days using jbl test kit which is very accurate and it really is suprising just how much kh plays a part in water quality if you dont have any. i know your ph is low but try testing your kh in your tap water. the ph reading wont give a true reading cos if your kh is low your ph will drop pretty quickly.

 

[AKGrown]

dont know if this will help but our tap water is very soft where i work with a kh of 1. if we dont buffer it with coral sand or kh powder we get ammonia. our tap water also contains 0.2 ammonia. we were struggling to get the ammonia down in one pond for weeks despite daily water changes so i stuck some kh powder in. i know its not recommended but voila ammonia disappered in 2 days and ph stable. we test water every few days using jbl test kit which is very accurate and it really is suprising just how much kh plays a part in water quality if you dont have any. i know your ph is low but try testing your kh in your tap water. the ph reading wont give a true reading cos if your kh is low your ph will drop pretty quickly.

our water is on the soft side too. what kind of powder did you get? or can something else be used. I've removed all of my plants and I am cutting feedings way way way back to as minimal as possible. I'm guessing that I need to do something different because these months of constant water changes are killing me!!

 

[angel-al]

you can get one from tmc called brightwell aquatics rift lake kh booster. a little goes a long way available from tmc

 

[AKGrown]

you can get one from tmc called brightwell aquatics rift lake kh booster. a little goes a long way available from tmc

I'm not sure that we have a tmc? we have a petco? but not much else..are they online?

 

[waterdrop]

There may be more to discuss about this particular brightwell product, the rift lake KH booster, but in general we've tried to steer clear of powders, both because of the possibility of extra substances they leave and because they are usually something that needs to be remembered and repeatedly dosed, thus setting you up for a possible failure at some point.

First of all I'd try to pick up a KH kit or combined GH/KH kit if you don't already have one (can't remember which thread we discussed this in recently but sorry if you've already been doing this in one of your other threads!) Secondly, if you are indeed going to make the decision to move away from the chemistry of your baseline tapwater, I'd look for a bag of "crushed coral" (which is actually broken up seashells and coral) and also get some small mesh bags. After you've taken some baseline KH readings for a few days (so that you'll have some "before" data for yourself) you should put a small partial handful (maybe a heaping tablespoon type amount?) into a mesh bag and fit it as a replacement for part of the media in one of your filter trays.

The surfaces of the shells/coral will very slowly begin to dissolve and will raise your KH at a speed that can not hurt even fish that are sensitive to mineral content changes. This is the way I've always seen as being preferred by the experienced ones on here but I am always open to learning more. I'm curious angel-al what we think the mechanism would be for getting ammonia because we didn't use coral sand or KH powder? I may be missing something but I can't picture how the raising of KH and ammonia are related (unless its simply that the Nitrospira -need- more carbonates in their environment before they'll process?)

~~waterdrop~~

 

[AKGrown]

There may be more to discuss about this particular brightwell product, the rift lake KH booster, but in general we've tried to steer clear of powders, both because of the possibility of extra substances they leave and because they are usually something that needs to be remembered and repeatedly dosed, thus setting you up for a possible failure at some point.

First of all I'd try to pick up a KH kit or combined GH/KH kit if you don't already have one (can't remember which thread we discussed this in recently but sorry if you've already been doing this in one of your other threads!) Secondly, if you are indeed going to make the decision to move away from the chemistry of your baseline tapwater, I'd look for a bag of "crushed coral" (which is actually broken up seashells and coral) and also get some small mesh bags. After you've taken some baseline KH readings for a few days (so that you'll have some "before" data for yourself) you should put a small partial handful (maybe a heaping tablespoon type amount?) into a mesh bag and fit it as a replacement for part of the media in one of your filter trays.

The surfaces of the shells/coral will very slowly begin to dissolve and will raise your KH at a speed that can not hurt even fish that are sensitive to mineral content changes. This is the way I've always seen as being preferred by the experienced ones on here but I am always open to learning more. I'm curious angel-al what we think the mechanism would be for getting ammonia because we didn't use coral sand or KH powder? I may be missing something but I can't picture how the raising of KH and ammonia are related (unless its simply that the Nitrospira -need- more carbonates in their environment before they'll process?)

~~waterdrop~~

My local stores dont have gh/kh testing kits but they do offer test strips that test both of those. The only reason I would like to alter my water is because of my snails shell deteroration. I am very concerned and I have taken the cuttle fish bone out of the tank to access the possability that it may have indeed been part of my problem. I am hoping that since my tank has been removed of additives that it will level off. I have been talking about different plants and different lighting in that section but if you have anything that you'd like to add i'm all ears! My platys and corys were much happier in the planted tank than they are now. I would just like to know what you would do if you were in my situation. I want the best for my fish.

 

[drobbyb]

Hi AKGrown! From what I have read here, it sounds as if you would be a good candidate for crushed coral. I have a good amount of experience with it as I use it because of how soft my water is. If your snail's shells are deteriorating, there is a real good chance that you have very low mineral content in your tap water.

Waterdrop and I have written an article on this very subject. Read it carefully, it can be found in my signature, and do not make the decision lightly as it takes dedication and patience to pull off correctly. If you have more questions about it, please feel free to ask.

 

[AKGrown]

Hi AKGrown! From what I have read here, it sounds as if you would be a good candidate for crushed coral. I have a good amount of experience with it as I use it because of how soft my water is. If your snail's shells are deteriorating, there is a real good chance that you have very low mineral content in your tap water.

Waterdrop and I have written an article on this very subject. Read it carefully, it can be found in my signature, and do not make the decision lightly as it takes dedication and patience to pull off correctly. If you have more questions about it, please feel free to ask.

Thanks so much! My tapwater is "soft" according to the test strip and my alkalinity is maybe 20? my pH is approx 7.4. I'm not understanding why my pH drop is so significant? Also is crushed coral the only way to go for my guys?

 

[OldMan47]

Cuttle bone is the classic first line of defense for shell damage from a lack of adequate calcium in the water. It is something that the snail breeders use for their mystery snails. It is not a substitute for good water quality with adequate pH and a decent KH but it can help some.

 

[AKGrown]

Cuttle bone is the classic first line of defense for shell damage from a lack of adequate calcium in the water. It is something that the snail breeders use for their mystery snails. It is not a substitute for good water quality with adequate pH and a decent KH but it can help some.

Well I have been giving it to them for approx 3 months? and it hasent done much they do eat it but their shell is still deterorating.. it should harm my tank right? like cuttle bone shouldn't effect my ammonia levels etc.

 

[drobbyb]

I wouldn't say that crushed coral is the only option, but it's probably the most cost effective and safest. I cited the article but neglected to tell you where to find it. The link can be found in my signature.

During the nitrification process the A-bacs and N-bacs use up the carbonates in the water they are housed in. Over time they will use up a significant amount, and if your water is already soft, you might experience pH problems. In some cases more frequent water changes can alleviate the problem, but for some people this is not enough. I would try the increased water changes before resorting to altering your hardness.

 

[AKGrown]

I wouldn't say that crushed coral is the only option, but it's probably the most cost effective and safest. I cited the article but neglected to tell you where to find it. The link can be found in my signature.

During the nitrification process the A-bacs and N-bacs use up the carbonates in the water they are housed in. Over time they will use up a significant amount, and if your water is already soft, you might experience pH problems. In some cases more frequent water changes can alleviate the problem, but for some people this is not enough. I would try the increased water changes before resorting to altering your hardness.

I have been doing water changes daily for the past three months to help with my ammonia and my pH is still dropping and my water is still soft or course lol. herm...I'm just not sure im so lost and i havent found a single place in town that sells crushed coral