Still Struggling With Ammonia

[AKGrown]

Okay, so i have tried and tried to get my aquarium water healthy.
I have a 20 gallon tank with 3 platys 3 corys 2 glofish 1 oto 2 frogs and 3 snails.
It is kept at roughly 80 degrees most of the time and is planted (about 1/4 of the tank)
I can not seem to get my ph neutral or my ammonia down.
I have had several suggestions but nothing has worked thus far.
I removed several of my larger plants thinking that perhaps they were not as healthy.
I have been doing 50% water changes every other day and 10%-20% on the others. My ammonia always climbs back up! My nitrites and nitrates are at 0. I have reduced feedings and still i do not know what is wrong. I condition my water with Prime and nothing else. If anyone can shed some light on my situation I would be very thankful.

On a side note would adding some coral substrate to my tank be wise?

 

[spectrum]

Sounds like you haven't cycled it.
After a few days you should find that you have less ammonia and then a few nitrites, then a few days after that less ammonia and nitrites and more nitrates.

Keep up the water changes to keep the ammonia to a minimum, you will need a tiny bit in there to get the cycling going, ideally you would have cycled it WITHOUT fish, ammonia is very toxic to fish (And pretty much any other organism).
Do you know anyone with a mature tank who you could pinch some filter media from?

 

[AKGrown]

Sounds like you haven't cycled it.
After a few days you should find that you have less ammonia and then a few nitrites, then a few days after that less ammonia and nitrites and more nitrates.

Keep up the water changes to keep the ammonia to a minimum, you will need a tiny bit in there to get the cycling going, ideally you would have cycled it WITHOUT fish, ammonia is very toxic to fish (And pretty much any other organism).
Do you know anyone with a mature tank who you could pinch some filter media from?

I've had my tank for approx 7 months..cycled it and then got my fishies I was doing well until the last two/three months or so and everything just went nuts. My city treated they're water and since then I havent been able to get things to shape up again. I do test my water before adding and it is ideal now. My filter should be mature I havent changed it for quite some time..which is what has me so baffeld.

 

[Twinklecaz]

How strange! I'd be interested in people's views on this too (sorry, I'm useless). How much Ammonia do you have?

Maybe you test kit could be faulty?

 

[AKGrown]

How strange! I'd be interested in people's views on this too (sorry, I'm useless). How much Ammonia do you have?

Maybe you test kit could be faulty?

I have tested with a liquid kit which I typically use and then i tested with strips for that reason. Had very close readings. and then took it in and had it tested at my LFS. Same story. and no one seems to know why..apparently several people in my area experienced similar happenings. My readings just climb if I let them be I had my tank at zero for one day and then it spiked again because i tested it the next day, mid day and it was at approx 0.25 ppm so I decided to let it be, perhaps my tank needed a little bit of ammonia, however i tested later that evening and it was up to 0.50 ppm! I have a proper filter for my size tank 100 gallons per hour, its a marineland filteration system. I have tried doing 50-80% changes for two weeks. that didnt work then I tried 20% changes for about three days and it shot up! all my current plants are healthy and thriving i have reduced feedings. my tank isnt overstocked. This has been going on for way to long and I am so worried about my fishies!

 

[Twinklecaz]

Ah well that covered all of my ideas, my next question was are you overstocked. I hope someone can help you then

 

[AKGrown]

Ah well that covered all of my ideas, my next question was are you overstocked. I hope someone can help you then

Thanks me too! If you happen to come accross any ideas send them my way!

 

[Harlequins]

What are your readings from the tap for ammonia?

Seems strange you haven't any nitrates,with a tank thats been running for 7 months it should show something...

Have you changed any media in your filter or washed it under a tap?

Did you before this started happening do a regular weekly water change & gravel vac?

Or have you disturbed the substrate too much without cleaning it?

 

[AKGrown]

What are your readings from the tap for ammonia?

Seems strange you haven't any nitrates,with a tank thats been running for 7 months it should show something...

Have you changed any media in your filter or washed it under a tap?

Did you before this started happening do a regular weekly water change & gravel vac?

Or have you disturbed the substrate too much without cleaning it?

I have always done frequent water changes/and gravel vacd weekly.
I did change my filter about a month and a half ago because I had differing opinions on the changing of the media from multiple people. My previous filter had stayed in for 4 months and I still had the issues that I am having now, which is why i thought hey maybe that is the problem.
I always clean my tank water very well (so that nothing is floating around) after changes. The water clears in less than 5 min.
My tap water which i have tested before and just ran one again is sitting at 0 or very very close to it for ammonia.
I have aeriation (a bubbler) running 24/7 lately I use to only do it during the day because it is rather loud for night time.
I did a 50% water change today and then about 4 hours later I did a 20% change and it read 0.25 maybe a little bit higher.
Its like for every time I change my water my ammonia has doubled from previous.
Should I maybe keep up my water changes as I am now? I reduced the gravel vacing that I was doing because I figured perhaps I was cleaning it too much and not giving the bacteria anything to feed off of. Should I resume my previous thorough vacing? Thanks!

 

[waterdrop]

Hi AKG, sorry to hear about your problems! It sounds like you have good maintenance habits and have approached your problem in a very thoughtful manner!

You say that the tank has been running 7 months and was cycled. But then you say that you replaced the filter about 5 weeks ago? You do not say whether you moved your mature media from the first filter over to the new filter but I assume you did do that? Obviously if you started over with raw media then you would have needed to cycle again but I'm sure you're aware of that.

I wonder if its possible that the water authority "shocked" the water supply with a large boost of chlorine/chloramine. This is a common practice and if a water authority does a particularly large one and an unlucky aquarist happens to do a pretty large water change with only a normal dosing of conditioner, its rare but possible for the bacterial colonies to be significantly damaged I suppose (although normally our colonies are much more safe than we think because chlorine-type treatments really depend on -time- to reduce bacterial levels in the water and normally we don't give the stuff enough time to hurt us.) If the LFS reported a number of people having the same problem then there might really have been an event. It is because of the possibility of these instances that Tolak and other experts on TFF have recommended that conditioner be dosed at 1.5x or even 2x of the manufacturer recommendation.

At any rate (subject to more info from you) your job as an aquarist seems simple and clear. *Whenever* ammonia or nitrite(NO2) appear in your test results (regardless of whether you can figure out why or not) you must consider yourself to be in a fish-in cycling situation (or a mini-cycle at the least) and you must continue the actions you've already been doing. I'll make two comments though: It sounds like you're doing better water changing than most people would but let me push you to make it more test-based if you are not already. Try hard to find the percentage and frequency pattern of water changes that keeps ammonia (and nitrite if you got any) at or below 0.25ppm (as measured by your API ammonia test) when you next are home and can do another water change. And yes, return to your good gravel-cleaning when taking the water out - this is always an important component. Remember that there is plenty of ammonia in the water for the bacteria even when our tests read zero ppm. The tests do not go that low and a perfectly running aquarium that tests zero always has a nice flow of ammonia to the bacteria.

If there are any plants that have "gone soft" or have brown leaves then either prune them or toss them out. They could be contributing a significant amount of ammonia!

Oh, and one more comment: Coral substrate is something one does to alter the water chemistry (unless one doesn't realize it does this) and should not be used unless there is some very strong need and a conscious decision has been made. pH is not something one normally wants to "optimize" as its much better for your tank to live its life with water chemistry that matches that of the chemistry the local water authority has "given" you. That tap water pipe is your biggest emergency lifesaver for the aquarium and you don't want it to become distanced from what the tank water is. You want to be able to simply add some conditioner and dilute any problems in the tank without having to go through all sorts of mineral content changes. (Experienced aquarists do do mineral content alterations (additions with crushed coral or subtractions via RO water with add-backs) but these are a big deal and are really best avoided if at all possible.)

OK, good luck and let us know the answers to the filter questions...

~~waterdrop~~

 

[AKGrown]

Hi AKG, sorry to hear about your problems! It sounds like you have good maintenance habits and have approached your problem in a very thoughtful manner!

You say that the tank has been running 7 months and was cycled. But then you say that you replaced the filter about 5 weeks ago? You do not say whether you moved your mature media from the first filter over to the new filter but I assume you did do that? Obviously if you started over with raw media then you would have needed to cycle again but I'm sure you're aware of that.

I wonder if its possible that the water authority "shocked" the water supply with a large boost of chlorine/chloramine. This is a common practice and if a water authority does a particularly large one and an unlucky aquarist happens to do a pretty large water change with only a normal dosing of conditioner, its rare but possible for the bacterial colonies to be significantly damaged I suppose (although normally our colonies are much more safe than we think because chlorine-type treatments really depend on -time- to reduce bacterial levels in the water and normally we don't give the stuff enough time to hurt us.) If the LFS reported a number of people having the same problem then there might really have been an event. It is because of the possibility of these instances that Tolak and other experts on TFF have recommended that conditioner be dosed at 1.5x or even 2x of the manufacturer recommendation.

At any rate (subject to more info from you) your job as an aquarist seems simple and clear. *Whenever* ammonia or nitrite(NO2) appear in your test results (regardless of whether you can figure out why or not) you must consider yourself to be in a fish-in cycling situation (or a mini-cycle at the least) and you must continue the actions you've already been doing. I'll make two comments though: It sounds like you're doing better water changing than most people would but let me push you to make it more test-based if you are not already. Try hard to find the percentage and frequency pattern of water changes that keeps ammonia (and nitrite if you got any) at or below 0.25ppm (as measured by your API ammonia test) when you next are home and can do another water change. And yes, return to your good gravel-cleaning when taking the water out - this is always an important component. Remember that there is plenty of ammonia in the water for the bacteria even when our tests read zero ppm. The tests do not go that low and a perfectly running aquarium that tests zero always has a nice flow of ammonia to the bacteria.

If there are any plants that have "gone soft" or have brown leaves then either prune them or toss them out. They could be contributing a significant amount of ammonia!

Oh, and one more comment: Coral substrate is something one does to alter the water chemistry (unless one doesn't realize it does this) and should not be used unless there is some very strong need and a conscious decision has been made. pH is not something one normally wants to "optimize" as its much better for your tank to live its life with water chemistry that matches that of the chemistry the local water authority has "given" you. That tap water pipe is your biggest emergency lifesaver for the aquarium and you don't want it to become distanced from what the tank water is. You want to be able to simply add some conditioner and dilute any problems in the tank without having to go through all sorts of mineral content changes. (Experienced aquarists do do mineral content alterations (additions with crushed coral or subtractions via RO water with add-backs) but these are a big deal and are really best avoided if at all possible.)

OK, good luck and let us know the answers to the filter questions...

~~waterdrop~~

Thanks for all of your good advice!!
With my filter I attempted to take media from the first one but in all honesty I am not sure how to properly do so. My filter does have a biowheel on it though and I was hoping that would save my butt! Perhaps I did not properly transfer the media?
Also since I have been using prome the past few months (since the ammonia problem started) I stopped using stress coat which only treated ammonia and chorine/chlorammins, whereas the prime is said to treat those along with detoxifying nitrites and nitrates. Is it possible that In adding extra Prime to my water to combat my ammonia is it possible that I am killing off my nitrites and in turn have killed off the few nitrates that I had before I started my recovery process?

Also at the time this all started (it truely was the series of unfortunate events) my LFS was backordered on alot of products due to lots of snow! As it happens I had been out for roughly 2 weeks on my chlorine test "kit", but I felt my tank was very much in need of a water change so since my awter had always been fine I went ahead and changed it. So perhapa there was a large amount of chlorine in my water and my addition of stress coat that i was using at the time was not sufficient.

My plants all seem healthy though I had a couple that I pulled because with all my water changes I had been adding little extra bits of aquarium salt to keep fish stress to a reduced level. and as a result two of my older plants kinda started to loook on the sad side and so though the roots still looked good I pulled them out.

As with the substrate the reason that i was considering adding it was because i wanted to add a buffer to my water in hopes that it would keep my tanks ph levels. When i add water from the tap it sits at roughly 7.4 and I can't seem to get it to hold there. it drops to about 6.4 and I am concerned about what this is doing to my snails shells. I have added cuttle fish bone for them to eat, could that be throwing anything off?

Thanks again!!

 

[Gilli]

I had a similar problem to you - I had a mature 2 year old tank and external filter - my filter died and I had to rush out and buy a new one. Despite transferring my ceramic hoops and sponges from the old filter to the new I had ammonia readings of between 0.25 - 0.50 for 7 weeks!! During that time I had to do water changes daily. Someone told me that the structure of the bacteria that live in the filter is very delicate and that by cramming the media into the new filter they get damaged and so are slow to recover. Also you lose the bacteria that were growing on the inside walls of the old filter and in your old filters pipes if its an external.

The only way you can speed things up is to cut back on feeding and only change the water every few days watching carefully that it doesnt go above 0.25. Apart from that its a waiting game im afraid!

It is odd that you dont have a nitrate reading -although if you are doing large water changes daily it will be very low. Just a thought - if you are using the liquid test kit are you shaking the bottle for the required ammount of time before doing the tests cos if you dont the reading will be 0.

 

[AKGrown]

I had a similar problem to you - I had a mature 2 year old tank and external filter - my filter died and I had to rush out and buy a new one. Despite transferring my ceramic hoops and sponges from the old filter to the new I had ammonia readings of between 0.25 - 0.50 for 7 weeks!! During that time I had to do water changes daily. Someone told me that the structure of the bacteria that live in the filter is very delicate and that by cramming the media into the new filter they get damaged and so are slow to recover. Also you lose the bacteria that were growing on the inside walls of the old filter and in your old filters pipes if its an external.

The only way you can speed things up is to cut back on feeding and only change the water every few days watching carefully that it doesnt go above 0.25. Apart from that its a waiting game im afraid!

It is odd that you dont have a nitrate reading -although if you are doing large water changes daily it will be very low. Just a thought - if you are using the liquid test kit are you shaking the bottle for the required ammount of time before doing the tests cos if you dont the reading will be 0.

I have been shaking the bottles as directed however perhaps ill shake a little longer next time its hard to tell sometimes with the chart provided where exactly the reading falls you know? I will test again this afternoon. I just did a 40% water change.

On a side note my filter says that you need to pour a cup of water or so back in to get it started back up. THis just crossed my mind as I was cleaning a few minutes ago but perhaps my bacteria is dying as a result? since my new water is being added then I have to start the filter back up so the motor doesn't burn out. Maybe this is what part of the problem is? Perhaps I'm setting myself back to zero each time?

 

[Harlequins]

My hob filters are the same on my smaller tanks,i just keep back some tank water i've just removed then has i plug it back in,i pour the used tank water back into the filter.and stats are spot on before & after.

Has Gilli mentioned about transferring media to a new filter,i had the same problem on my fry tank,but mine was spiking nitrite and it was zero before the change over,for 2 weeks i kept doing waterchanges,in the end i added another air driven sponge filter loaded with very mature media from my external and bingo it seemed to have done the trick.
All i can put it down to is the little hob filter isnt powerful enough alone on the fry tank.

Regarding cuttlebone,i think this can lower your ph,has your ph been lowering since adding this?
By the way,you say you've been using aquarium salt,i would advise against using this while you have corys in the tank,has they can't handle too much salt.

I hope your ammonia level sorts itself out,it can be so frustrating,especially has your tank has been running for 7 months.

 

[AKGrown]

My hob filters are the same on my smaller tanks,i just keep back some tank water i've just removed then has i plug it back in,i pour the used tank water back into the filter.and stats are spot on before & after.

Has Gilli mentioned about transferring media to a new filter,i had the same problem on my fry tank,but mine was spiking nitrite and it was zero before the change over,for 2 weeks i kept doing waterchanges,in the end i added another air driven sponge filter loaded with very mature media from my external and bingo it seemed to have done the trick.
All i can put it down to is the little hob filter isnt powerful enough alone on the fry tank.

Regarding cuttlebone,i think this can lower your ph,has your ph been lowering since adding this?
By the way,you say you've been using aquarium salt,i would advise against using this while you have corys in the tank,has they can't handle too much salt.

I hope your ammonia level sorts itself out,it can be so frustrating,especially has your tank has been running for 7 months.

I keep hearing alot about sponges and yet i'm not too sure what everyone is talking about..could you explain?
And I got my corys at the good ol petco where they use salt all of the time and told me it was "ok" until I did research and found that to not be the case!! So I have since ceased all salt (for like the last week and a half or two) since the corys are my fave! haha