Starting A New Tank

[Cashisgone]

Hi there!

My girlfriend and I have been thinking over the last couple of months about getting a tropical tank and have finally decided to go for it. I always like to research things properly before I do anything and this site (and others!) has been invaluable in picking up the essential information we're going to need! I've managed to put together a list of things I'm thinking we're going to need- any feedback would be most appreciated. The intention is to do a fishless cycle (unfortunately I don't know anybody else who already has a tank so we'll just need to be patient) and I'll definitely be asking for more advice regarding fish selection and stocking levels after I've got the cycling underway!

The resource list I'm looking at is:


1x Fluval Vicenza 260 Aquarium & Cabinet Oak and Wenge
2x Pettex Pre Washed Dorset Pea Gravel 20kg Medium Stone
13x Background Japanese Aquascape/Driftwood 46cm (18in)
1x Aquarium Fish Net Vinyl Coated Handle 12.5 cm (5in)
1x Easy Clean Gravel Cleaner Medium
1x Tetratec Hydroclean Gravel Cleaner Deluxe
3x Background Stickers
1x Column Ruins
1x Temple Ruins Large
5x Stackable Reef Rock Small
1x Api Melafix Aquarium 237ml
1x Api Pimafix Aquarium 237ml
1x Api Liquid Freshwater Master Test Kit
1x Starter Plant Collection Aquarium Plant
1x Tetramin Tropical Flake 200g
1x King British White Spot Ws3 50ml
(all sourced from seapets)
I'll also be stopping off at Boots for some Ammonia!

I'm aware this is a daft question (don't worry, there'll be more!)- does anyone how many buckets you normally need to do regular water changes for 260litre tanks and where the best place to buy them from is?

Is there any obvious essentials I'm forgetting to buy here (other than fish...)

 

[fluttermoth]

First of all; welcome to the forum!
Second; congrats on doing your research! Well done

I'm aware this is a daft question (don't worry, there'll be more!)- does anyone how many buckets you normally need to do regular water changes for 260litre tanks and where the best place to buy them from is?

Is there any obvious essentials I'm forgetting to buy here (other than fish...)

I know this is a trite reply, but how many buckets you need....depends...
I've got four buckest and normally do eight bucket water changes, which works out at around 50% on a 200l tank. The big 3 gallon builder's buckets are probably best (and cheapest) though you might prefer the household two gallon/10l ones; depends on how strong you are really! I have two of each

 

[codheadjohn]

I assume the tank comes with heater and filter?

You can use the box containers from any superstore. I have one that cost about £3, it holds 30+ litres and do 2 buckets of this in a normal water change for a similar sized tank.

You'd be better off getting the plants after the tank is cycled. They consume ammonia, so will take some away from the bacteria. If you're heavily planting (> 75% of substrate) then you don't need to cycle.

That's a lot of driftwood!

 

[fluttermoth]

That's a lot of driftwood!

I think he means this dude! http/www.seapets.co.uk/products/aquarium-supplies/aquarium-ornaments/backgrounds/background-japanese-aquascape-driftwood-46cm-18in.html

 

[moochy13]

carefully consider your substrate. larger, coarser gravel will limit what fish you can have that are 'bottom dwellers'. you will no doubt at some point int he future be reccommended cories, who much prefer sand, or at least fine, small stone gravel. other catfish and plecs, that spend lots of time scooting around on their bellies, will prefer the sand and fine gravel. if you want to use sand, its 3 quid a bag from argos, just plain old playsand.

it might be worth getting food once you know what fish youre feeding - not all fish all like the same food. why do yo have 2 gravel cleaners ? also you may want an algae glass cleaner, either a magnetic one or i prefer a coarse sponge. pets at home do the best one ive found, its not come up against an algae it cant scrub off, but it doesnt scratch the tank. its blue and either is just the sponge, or the sponge on a plastic handle.

also, i use a large water butt i got off ebay for 6 quid to do my water changes. cant remember how big it is off the top of my head, but its enough for me to do one water change just filling it once.

 

[Cashisgone]

First of all; welcome to the forum!
Second; congrats on doing your research! Well done

I'm aware this is a daft question (don't worry, there'll be more!)- does anyone how many buckets you normally need to do regular water changes for 260litre tanks and where the best place to buy them from is?

Is there any obvious essentials I'm forgetting to buy here (other than fish...)

I know this is a trite reply, but how many buckets you need....depends...
I've got four buckest and normally do eight bucket water changes, which works out at around 50% on a 200l tank. The big 3 gallon builder's buckets are probably best (and cheapest) though you might prefer the household two gallon/10l ones; depends on how strong you are really! I have two of each

Thanks Fluttermoth

I need to do some more looking into the actual water change (i.e. do you add dechlorinator to the buckets or can you add it straight to the tank with fish in it?)I've seen some people recommend 50% water changes while others recommend 10% changes. Is there a handy page for arguments for and against?

You'd be better off getting the plants after the tank is cycled. They consume ammonia, so will take some away from the bacteria. If you're heavily planting (> 75% of substrate) then you don't need to cycle.

That's a lot of driftwood!

Cheers John

It's not actually driftwood, just pictures of it (comes as a package with the tank, I preferred the look of the Juwel Background Poster that I forgot to mention in the OP that I'd also added to the shopping list!)

I was only intending to plant one side of the tank with the rock formations and columns on the other side, but are you saying that you don't need to cycle at all if you have enough plants in the tank?

I assume the tank comes with heater and filter?

Sorry, should have also said the tank comes with:


The Fluval Vicenza 260 Aquarium and Cabinet from Seapets comes equipped with:
Fluval GLO T5 lighting unit,
One Power Glo T5 Fluorescent Bulb High Output 39w 91cm (34in)
One Life Glo T5 Fluorescent Bulb High Output 39w 91cm (36in)
Filter Model Fluval 305 External Filter
Filter Media, see media product for replacement schedule.
Heater, Fluval Mirrored M Series Heater 300watt,

 

[Gelt]

i use 3 gal/10L buckets x2 and for the water change to fresh Jerrycan i also find the 25 litre one with tap very useful and cheap to buy!

 

[Miles_hot]

Filter, Heater, dropper for the Ammonia and unless already covered by one of the API things something to take the chlorine out of your tap water.

Miles

 

[Cashisgone]

carefully consider your substrate. larger, coarser gravel will limit what fish you can have that are 'bottom dwellers'. you will no doubt at some point int he future be reccommended cories, who much prefer sand, or at least fine, small stone gravel. other catfish and plecs, that spend lots of time scooting around on their bellies, will prefer the sand and fine gravel. if you want to use sand, its 3 quid a bag from argos, just plain old playsand.

it might be worth getting food once you know what fish youre feeding - not all fish all like the same food. why do yo have 2 gravel cleaners ? also you may want an algae glass cleaner, either a magnetic one or i prefer a coarse sponge. pets at home do the best one ive found, its not come up against an algae it cant scrub off, but it doesnt scratch the tank. its blue and either is just the sponge, or the sponge on a plastic handle.

also, i use a large water butt i got off ebay for 6 quid to do my water changes. cant remember how big it is off the top of my head, but its enough for me to do one water change just filling it once.

Thanks Moochy

I had considered sand but thought the gravel might be easier to clean for a newbie- is the sand just as easy to keep clean? I'll post the list of fish I was thinking about at some stage but I had included around 6 Zebra Loaches so what you say does make sense.

One gravel cleaner comes with the tank (the Easy Clean one) but strangely when you read the description it suggests it's only good for tanks up to 37cm deep (the Vicenza260 is 64 cm deep).

I'll look into the algae cleaner and the water butt, both seem good suggestions.

Food- Again I'll post my fish list later (unless you guys would be willing to offer suggestions now, I wasn't wanting to be greedy and ask for too much advice when I'm still new!) but I think all the fish I'm looking at are omnivores. Do I need alternatives to the flakes?

 

[Cashisgone]

Filter, Heater, dropper for the Ammonia and unless already covered by one of the API things something to take the chlorine out of your tap water.

Miles

Thanks Miles.

The aquarium comes with a filter, heater and aqua plus water conditioner (I'm assuming that's a dechlorinator!) but I'll look into some sort of dropper.

 

[Cashisgone]

Ok, after Moochy's earlier questions it seems my questions would be easier answered if I provided some details about the fish we had in mind

Feedback, as ever, would be appreciated.

2 Makori (think that's their common name, Pelvicachromis taeniatus is their scientific name)
2 Ram Cichlid
6 Zebra Danios
2 Bristlenose Catfish
5 Zebra Loach
2 Pearl Gourami
6 Cardinal Tetra.

Even using the most conservative calculators I don't think that's too many fish. Would they be alright together?

I'd also be tempted to get a red-tailed black shark but I'm not sure if a) I'd have enough room or b) it would be alright with the Gourami. Any words of wisdom?

 

[moochy13]

never heard of makori, but i cant see a problem with the others. dont bother with the shark, theres plenty of other fish that are better to keep, and dont come with the potential hassle. you might be able to have more cardinals, which would look great, but thats an option for further down the line.

with sand, bascially all you do is hoover off the top, just 3 or 4 mm above the sand. you find the right level where poo gets lifted, but sand doesnt. so its less digging around in gravel, as you can just scoot over the surface of the substrate. obviously, this means it requires more cleaning to keep looking clean, as with gravel the old food and poo falls through the gravel. with sand it all stays on top.

the water butt i mentioned i use, my tank is upstairs and the tap is downstairs, the water butt is great because it has a screw cap, carting open top buckets about is an accident waiting to happen. however, it also means i can get a load of water dechlorinated and ready at room temp, and just leave it until i need it, if i need an emergency water change, or just want to top up after a quick hoover. again, you wouldnt leave an open bucket full of water laying about.

also, sometimes the checmistry of your water can influence what fish you have. you wont know this until you get your test kit, though the api master kit doesnt test water hardness, only ph. obviously different fish prefer different pH levels and different water hardness levels. however, its worth asking if the fish you're buying a are locally bred, in which case they may have been raised in water similar to yours (hopefully).

 

[Cashisgone]

never heard of makori, but i cant see a problem with the others. dont bother with the shark, theres plenty of other fish that are better to keep, and dont come with the potential hassle. you might be able to have more cardinals, which would look great, but thats an option for further down the line.

with sand, bascially all you do is hoover off the top, just 3 or 4 mm above the sand. you find the right level where poo gets lifted, but sand doesnt. so its less digging around in gravel, as you can just scoot over the surface of the substrate. obviously, this means it requires more cleaning to keep looking clean, as with gravel the old food and poo falls through the gravel. with sand it all stays on top.

the water butt i mentioned i use, my tank is upstairs and the tap is downstairs, the water butt is great because it has a screw cap, carting open top buckets about is an accident waiting to happen. however, it also means i can get a load of water dechlorinated and ready at room temp, and just leave it until i need it, if i need an emergency water change, or just want to top up after a quick hoover. again, you wouldnt leave an open bucket full of water laying about.

also, sometimes the checmistry of your water can influence what fish you have. you wont know this until you get your test kit, though the api master kit doesnt test water hardness, only ph. obviously different fish prefer different pH levels and different water hardness levels. however, its worth asking if the fish you're buying a are locally bred, in which case they may have been raised in water similar to yours (hopefully).

Thanks Moochy

How much sand do you reckon you'd need for a 260 litre tank?

 

[moochy13]

depends more on the surface area of the floor i guess, and how deep you want it. i think a couple of inches is a good place to start. dont worry about buying too much, not only is it dirt cheap, but you will need to top it up because you do end up hoovering some sand up, however hard you try. how long is the tank ? 3.5 ft ? couple of bags might do it, 3 to be sure with extra left over. sand can be added while youre cycling, so if you buy 2 bags and its not enough, you can always add more later on. 15kg bags i think they are, it does all need to be rinsed through before it goes in the tank though, fill a bucket 2/3 with sand, jam a hose in the bottom, run the water and agitate the sand till teh run off water is pretty much clear. the more you clean the sand, the less it will cloud the water when it goes in.

 

[Cashisgone]

i use 3 gal/10L buckets x2 and for the water change to fresh Jerrycan i also find the 25 litre one with tap very useful and cheap to buy!

Sorry Gelt, missed this post yesterday evening- I'll maybe buy some Jerry cans as well, could come in useful!

As mentioned in my first post, I was intending to do a fishless cycle (seems to be a lot of reasons for it). I did stumble across this article though- http/www.firsttankguide.net/fishlesscycle.php

What do others think about the arguments being presented here against a fishless cycle? I'm going to place the order for the resources above tonight anyway, don't think it's affected by how we cycle the tank (I might leave the plants till later though).