Help! New Walstad, High Ammonia & Nitrates!

[connorlindeman]

Did your substrate leach ammonia? If it did, how long did it take to get the ammonia down to zero, just a dew days? Some substrates can leach ammonia for months.

I started the tanks with lots of fast-growing stem plants. I guess they took care of the ammonia. On day 3 I tested and there was no ammonia reading. Plants are doing great though so the soil is definitely doing something.

 

[sn0wlvlan]

I'd look at what @Byron said. Walstads are not for the impatient. A standard tank cycling can take days. A Walstad settling can take months. I doubt there is a floating plant that grows fast enough to absorb the ammonia from the early stages of a Walstad. Still, you will have some beautiful plants to admire, and it is a plants first system. Maybe by JMay or une that one will be set. It takes time.

Yes patience is indeed key! Just wondering if my readings for a start is normal. As you can see there are cases where it starts off low/no amm where some have spikes.

 

[sn0wlvlan]

I started the tanks with lots of fast-growing stem plants. I guess they took care of the ammonia. On day 3 I tested and there was no ammonia reading. Plants are doing great though so the soil is definitely doing something.

I'm gonna add more stems soon. Prolly gonna get 5-6 more. Apart from the mentioned, any other recommendations based on your previous tanks? Thanks!

 

[GaryE]

Yes patience is indeed key! Just wondering if my readings for a start is normal. As you can see there are cases where it starts off low/no amm where some have spikes.

I don't think normal could exist, since soil here, soil there - the composition we start with can be radically different. It really depends on what is decomposing in that soil, if it's been pre-treated, etc. It makes it hard to get advice, because the person offering their experience may have had a radically different experiencefrom what you are going to see without realizing it.

 

[sn0wlvlan]

I'm gonna add more stems soon. Prolly gonna get 5-6 more. Apart from the mentioned, any other recommendations based on your previous tanks? Thanks!

Also wondering, @connorlindeman do you recycle your plants or have a growout tank where you can just grab them? Cause my setup here's entirely new, plants, substrate, etc all are fresh from store, hence expecting a longer period too.

 

[connorlindeman]

I'm gonna add more stems soon. Prolly gonna get 5-6 more. Apart from the mentioned, any other recommendations based on your previous tanks? Thanks!

Besides making sure that you have plenty of plants, theres really is nothing else to it.

Also wondering, @connorlindeman do you recycle your plants or have a growout tank where you can just grab them? Cause my setup here's entirely new, plants, substrate, etc all are fresh from store, hence expecting a longer period too.

I have an online plant store so I buy hundreds of wholesale plants at dirt-cheap prices weekly.
All my walstad tanks were started with cuttings from my supplier.

You should notice noticeable plant growth within days.
Day 1 of my first wasltad:

Day 7:

Day 14:

 

[sn0wlvlan]

Besides making sure that you have plenty of plants, theres really is nothing else to it.

I have an online plant store so I buy hundreds of wholesale plants at dirt-cheap prices weekly.
All my walstad tanks were started with cuttings from my supplier.

You should notice noticeable plant growth within days.
Day 1 of my first wasltad:

Day 7:

Day 14:

Amazing. Thanks for sharing! I'll guess I'll continue with my maintenance in the meantime apart from adding few more stems!

 

[Byron]

As some have correctly noted, the "soil" composition is the unknown issue that can make or break the method. Ammonia in an aquarium comes from two sources, the respiration of fish and the decomposition of organic matter. When you have an inert substrate such as sand or fine gravel, the ammonia occurring from the organic decomposition in the substrate is easily assessed because it basically comes from the fish being fed. When you have a soil substrate, or some of the plant substrates, you are adding an unknown because you do not know the composition of the substrate most of the time. Organic potting or garden soil for example is one of the worst for this. If memory serves me, Diana Walstad does not recommend organic garden soil for this reason.

When you have an inert sand/fine gravel substrate, and a decent number of plants that are relatively fast-growers (stem plants and floating for example), you can set up a new tank with no "cycling" as such. I've done this for 30 years, starting back when I knew nothing about the reason it worked but I always had plants. Fish can be added and the plants will easily and quickly assimilate all the ammonia they can create, by respiration or decomposition of the waste. Again, it is the "soil" that complicates and often hinders this method.

 

[sn0wlvlan]

As some have correctly noted, the "soil" composition is the unknown issue that can make or break the method. Ammonia in an aquarium comes from two sources, the respiration of fish and the decomposition of organic matter. When you have an inert substrate such as sand or fine gravel, the ammonia occurring from the organic decomposition in the substrate is easily assessed because it basically comes from the fish being fed. When you have a soil substrate, or some of the plant substrates, you are adding an unknown because you do not know the composition of the substrate most of the time. Organic potting or garden soil for example is one of the worst for this. If memory serves me, Diana Walstad does not recommend organic garden soil for this reason.

When you have an inert sand/fine gravel substrate, and a decent number of plants that are relatively fast-growers (stem plants and floating for example), you can set up a new tank with no "cycling" ass such. I've done this for 30 years, starting back when I knew nothing about the reason it worked but I always had plants. Fish can be added and the plants will easily and quickly assimilate all the ammonia they can create, by respiration or decomposition of the waste. Again, it is the "soil" that complicates and often hinders this method.

Appreciate the explanation @Byron! This further assures my main concern pointing to the soil. I hope that with the frequent water changes, it will pan out eventually.
Day 5 is still high, but I do hope I don't need to rescape and try another soil. If so, it's for the good and learning anyways. Thank you for the great insight!

 

[connorlindeman]

As some have correctly noted, the "soil" composition is the unknown issue that can make or break the method. Ammonia in an aquarium comes from two sources, the respiration of fish and the decomposition of organic matter. When you have an inert substrate such as sand or fine gravel, the ammonia occurring from the organic decomposition in the substrate is easily assessed because it basically comes from the fish being fed. When you have a soil substrate, or some of the plant substrates, you are adding an unknown because you do not know the composition of the substrate most of the time. Organic potting or garden soil for example is one of the worst for this. If memory serves me, Diana Walstad does not recommend organic garden soil for this reason.

When you have an inert sand/fine gravel substrate, and a decent number of plants that are relatively fast-growers (stem plants and floating for example), you can set up a new tank with no "cycling" ass such. I've done this for 30 years, starting back when I knew nothing about the reason it worked but I always had plants. Fish can be added and the plants will easily and quickly assimilate all the ammonia they can create, by respiration or decomposition of the waste. Again, it is the "soil" that complicates and often hinders this method.

That is interesting to me.
Every source that I find online suggests Organic Potting Soil.
If I remember correctly, she recommends using Miracle Grow Organic Potting Soil.

 

[connorlindeman]

Just checked her forum and she does recommend Miracle Gro Organic Choice Potting Mix

 

[sn0wlvlan]

Another question, once you have found the "perfect" combination for your soil & substrate, hows the maintenance usually like during the starting phase?

Ideal case was like @connorlindeman having little no none ammonia.

But shall there be spikes like my case of say 1ppm ammonia and 20ppm nitrates, is it best to still do a 30% max so that the 'cycling' does not get disrupted? Or regardless shall it be setup correctly, plants will feed on them anyways so might as well do a 80% change to prevent flooding?

 

[sn0wlvlan]

That is interesting to me.
Every source that I find online suggests Organic Potting Soil.
If I remember correctly, she recommends using Miracle Grow Organic Potting Soil.

Yea I've always seen references to organic potting soil / topsoil / garden soil.
Just not fertilized and no organic matter

 

[Byron]

Appreciate the explanation @Byron! This further assures my main concern pointing to the soil. I hope that with the frequent water changes, it will pan out eventually.
Day 5 is still high, but I do hope I don't need to rescape and try another soil. If so, it's for the good and learning anyways. Thank you for the great insight!

A couple of other things. First, leaving the soil may mean no fish for up to six months. But, even then, there are fish that should not be kept in a tank with soil. Substrate fish for example. Corydoras catfish and loaches can have very serious bacterial issues with anything but inert sand, and these fish "dig" naturally which can make a real mess.

Given the issues, I would recommend you change the substrate now so you will not be hampered/hindered going forward from any of these serious problems. Soft sand is your best option. The other thing is, plants will grow equally well in inert sand as in soil, perhaps even better. And inert sand has no fish problems associated with it.

 

[connorlindeman]

Yea I've always seen references to organic potting soil / topsoil / garden soil.
Just not overly fertilized and no organic matter

Miracle Grow Organic Potting Mix is 100% organic matter.