Speeding Up The Fishless Cycle ... Will It Work ?

pdludbrooke

Fish Crazy
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Hi I started my fishless cycle a few days ago, I went along to my local fish place to look at all the beautiful fish to plan on what to get, I got speaking to a member of staff and said how I was doing the fishless cycle using ammonia etc he said that it could all be done in a week, that's all it takes..........I said in disbelief really....well he has given me something called Evolution Aqua pure aquarium here is the website for them, you need to look down for the pure aquarium bit, every thing else seems to be pond stuff (I'd love a pond)

http://www.evolutionaqua.com/acatalog/PURE_Aquarium.html

I've given it a try, will see..............
 
I hope it works for you, but it's the age old question, "what feeds this bacteria whilst it is in it's dormant state".
I wouldn't hold your breath, but as i said, it would be great if it works for you.

Terry.
 
Hi I started my fishless cycle a few days ago, I went along to my local fish place to look at all the beautiful fish to plan on what to get, I got speaking to a member of staff and said how I was doing the fishless cycle using ammonia etc he said that it could all be done in a week, that's all it takes..........I said in disbelief really....well he has given me something called Evolution Aqua pure aquarium here is the website for them, you need to look down for the pure aquarium bit, every thing else seems to be pond stuff (I'd love a pond)

http://www.evolutionaqua.com/acatalog/PURE_Aquarium.html

I've given it a try, will see..............

I trust in all your experience about products claiming to have real live bacteria, I am not going to beleive a thing till I see it I am monitoring my ammonia and nitrites, I had already dosed my tank with 3 ppm according to my tank size (105 litres = 3.2 ml kleen off ammonia) and my reading was between 0.6ppm and 1.2ppm ammonia and 0 nitrates (seachem prime got the ammonia as advised on here) this was just after adding these ball things, oh he said just chuck the whole 12 in as I already have ammonia in the tank, I put 4 in each compartment of my U2 filter, I don't have the expensive carbon pad things I instead have some 1cm thick aqua one high grade open pored foam cut to size and some very fine white fibred filter stuff taken from all pond solution 1400 uv canister filter, which is brand new (saving it for the 330 litre big tank I have been trying to put money away for) and not used, so we will see.............

I hope it works for you, but it's the age old question, "what feeds this bacteria whilst it is in it's dormant state".
I wouldn't hold your breath, but as i said, it would be great if it works for you.

Terry.
I am sceptical
 
as I mentioned not too long ago I had a 90 gallon take blow out on my. I saved all my fish, but the method I was using to keep them alive wasn't going to last long. So I went in, picked up the 125 gallon tank i have now, got it set up, heated the water, then poured in two bottles of this solution they sold me and 24 hours later, the brand new tank/water was ready for my fish. I never lost one. I wish I remembered the brand and what it was called, I can probably find out. But ya, it saved all my fish!
 
Continue to keep us posted. I would love to discover one of these products that actually works. So far, it has not happened.
 
as I mentioned not too long ago I had a 90 gallon take blow out on my. I saved all my fish, but the method I was using to keep them alive wasn't going to last long. So I went in, picked up the 125 gallon tank i have now, got it set up, heated the water, then poured in two bottles of this solution they sold me and 24 hours later, the brand new tank/water was ready for my fish. I never lost one. I wish I remembered the brand and what it was called, I can probably find out. But ya, it saved all my fish!



Did you continue to run your filter after your 90 gallon tank broke?

Terry.
 
I read this after posting, (the evolution Aqua is crap!!!!)

Autotrophic vs. Heterotrophic Bacteria

Fritz Industries

There's a lot of confusion among aquarists about nitrifying bacteria. This is due in large part to the recent emergence of a wide variety of bacterial products claiming to be nitrifiers or nitrifying aids. The confusion results from the plethora of misinformation presented in advertisements and the aquarist’s general lack of knowledge about bacteria. Most of these products actually contain species of heterotrophic bacteria from the genera Bacillus, Pseudomonas, Escherichia, and others.

True nitrifying bacteria are considered to be those belonging to the family NITROBACTERACEAE. These bacteria are strictly aerobic, gram-negative, chemolithic autotrophs. They require oxygen, utilize mostly inorganic (without carbon) compounds as their energy source, and require carbon dioxide (CO2) for their source of carbon. In the case of the Nitrobacteraceae these energy sources are derived from the chemical conversion of ammonia to nitrite, or, nitrite to nitrate.

Five genera are generally accepted as ammonia-oxidizers and four genera as nitrite-oxidizers. Of these, Nitrosomonas (ammonia-oxidizers) and Nitrobacter (nitrite-oxidizers) are the most important. Species of marine nitrifiers are different from those that prefer fresh water, and yet, are very closely related. Each species has a limited optimum range for survival. They are very slow growing because of the manner in which they must obtain energy. Under optimal growth conditions, they will double in population every 15-24 hours. Heterotrophic bacteria, on the other hand, can reproduce in as little as 15 minutes to 1 hour.

Where does ammonia in the aquarium come from? Some of it is released directly by the fish; by diffusion from the blood across the gill membranes. Excreted urea or uric acid is also converted to ammonia through a process called mineralization. Solid organic, nitrogenous, waste material (a.k.a.- sludge) is also converted to ammonia through mineralization. Sources of this waste material are from fecal material, the decay of plant and animal tissues, and from the decay of excess food. Mineralization is accomplished by any of a number of species of heterotrophic bacteria. Species from the genus Bacillus are the most common.

Ammonia is the primary compound produced by this process. Some species of heterotrophic bacteria can oxidize or reduce nitrogenous compounds directly to nitrites (NO2), nitrate (NO3), or other forms of nitrogen (as NO or N2). In the absence of an organic nitrogen source, many heterotrophs can utilize ammonia instead. This is much more likely to happen in the laboratory, under ideal conditions, than in actual practice. In the aquarium, as in nature, an organic, nitrogen rich, food source is constantly being produced and is readily available for these bacteria to utilize. Heterotrophic bacteria have little or no need to resort to utilizing ammonia as their source of nitrogen.

This ability of heterotrophic bacteria to utilize ammonia has led to the erroneous belief that they are as effective as true nitrifying bacteria in establishing the nitrogen cycle. These bacteria, however, generally cannot utilize nitrites. Experimental data has shown that up to one million times more (103 - 106) of these heterotrophic ‘nitrifers’ are required to perform a comparable level of ammonia conversion that is attained by true autotrophic nitrifiers. When using heterotrophic ‘nitrifiers’, the nitrogen cycle in the aquarium basically follows the same course as when no bacteria are added and the system cycles naturally.

Another negative aspect to heterotrophs is that under certain environmental conditions they can operate in the reverse direction. In other words, they can convert nitrate back to nitrites and ammonia through a process called dissimilation. This is generally an anaerobic process, but, can occur during periods when dissolved oxygen levels are very low (DO £ 2.0 ppm). Dissimilation is a part of the denitrification process. Denitrification is the conversion (reduction) of nitrites and nitrate to gaseous nitrogen (N2, NO, N20).

Heterotrophic bacteria can be either gram-positive (ex: Bacillus) or gram-negative (ex: Pseudomonas). Some are strictly aerobic, but many are facultative anaerobes (they can survive in both the presence or absence of oxygen). Many species tolerate a wide range of environmental conditions: temperature, pH, salinity, etc.

They can also survive adverse conditions by forming spores, increasing the shelf life of the products. Because of this ability, they can be dried, packaged, and sold as viable cultures. Nitrifying bacteria do not form spores and cannot survive drying. This process kills the bacteria leaving no viable bacteria which might inoculate another culture. It has been debated whether or not nitrifying bacteria could survive freeze drying, but, even this is doubtful.

Dry product formulations are by far the most common. These products consist of sludge removing and other nonpathogenic, heterotrophic species of bacteria and their culture media. Formulations may vary to some degree, but, they all perform the same functions. They all contain bacteria species that digest proteins, fats, oils, cellulose, and starch.

These are similar to liquid sludge removers with broader applications. They often contain species of bacteria that function well in fresh, brackish, or salt water. Most liquid type bacterial products available in the pet industry contain little or no true nitrifying bacteria. Instead, they rely on their ability to maintain tolerable levels of ammonia until naturally occurring Nitrosomonas and Nitrobacter bacteria can become established. Both of these liquid and dry products should be considered as biological aids to nitrification.

Some manufacturers recommend the addition of gravel or water from an established aquarium. This is their only source of nitrifying bacteria. An element of risk is involved with this method because the potential exists for introducing disease causing pathogens into the new tank.

Fritz-Zymeâ #7 (freshwater) and #9 (brackish and marine) contain pure cultures of live Nitrosomonas and Nitrobacter bacteria. Fritz-Zymes #7 & #9 give nitrification a tremendous boost by introducing over two million nitrifying bacteria per ounce of product to rapidly accelerate the nitrification process. Ammonia and nitrite levels are quickly and significantly reduced to safe levels. Fish stress induced by high levels of ammonia and nitrites is also reduced and mortalities normally associated with "New Tank Syndrome" are sharply curtailed.

Key Points

True nitrifying bacteria are strictly aerobic autotrophs. They can only use nitrogen from inorganic sources such as ammonia and nitrite. Nitrosomonas (ammonia-oxidizers) and Nitrobacter (nitrite-oxidizers) are the most common.

Heterotrophic bacteria are generally considered to be organic sludge degraders. They are mostly from the genera Bacillus and Pseudomonas. Most of these are facultative anaerobes; meaning they can function with or without oxygen. They will do completely different functions depending on the level of dissolved oxygen present.

Heterotrophic "nitrifiers" prefer to obtain their nitrogen from organic sources such as decomposing organic debris. Those that can convert ammonia do so only when an organic nitrogen source is not available. This is unlikely to happen in an aquarium or pond where fish are present. The explosion of "nitrifying" bacteria products in the industry is due to research that some heterotrophs can use ammonia-nitrogen. However, this is under ideal laboratory conditions.

Heterotrophic "nitrifiers" generally cannot utilize nitrites. Only a few species are capable of reducing nitrite to free nitrogen, but, under strictly anaerobic conditions.

Scientific studies indicate that, depending on species, between one thousand to one million heterotrophic bacteria cells are required to perform the same ammonia conversion rate as one Nitrosomonas bacteria cell.

Fritz-Zyme #7 has a cell count of 30 million bacteria per ounce, 50% of which is Nitrosomonas and 50% Nitrobacter. To obtain the same ammonia conversion rate, a competitive product composed of heterotrophic "nitrifiers" would require the addition of 15 trillion bacteria. This would probably require several gallons of another product. No quantity of heterotrophic "nitrifiers" would reduce the generated nitrites.

Heterotrophic "nitrifiers" can also operate in the reverse direction; that is they can convert nitrate to nitrite or ammonia, especially during times of low dissolved oxygen levels. In a pond, this could potentially happen during the hours before sunrise when DO levels are at their lowest.

There are no dry forms of any bacterial product that can contain viable Nitrosomonas and Nitrobacter cells. Unlike heterotrophs, they cannot form spores so they cannot survive any type of drying or freeze-drying process.

Disclaimer
The use of trade names in this publication is solely for the purpose of providing specific information. BioFilter.Com does not guarantee or warranty the products named, and references to them in this publication does not signify our approval to the exclusion of other products of suitable composition.
 
There is no reason to empty a tank and start again. I have never seen a true nitrifying additive except one that was once sold under the name of Biospira. That product produced exactly the desired response, but required constant refrigeration and had a very short shelf life even when refrigerated. It has not been manufactured for many years now so that leaves me with no known additives that work. The one being sold by Fritz might actually work but I have yet to see any reports of its success from a source aside from the company itself. I do note that the particular bacteria they mention in the sales text you posted are the ones more commonly useful in high concentration situations like waste treatment plants, not in aquariums.
 
There is no reason to empty a tank and start again. I have never seen a true nitrifying additive except one that was once sold under the name of Biospira. That product produced exactly the desired response, but required constant refrigeration and had a very short shelf life even when refrigerated. It has not been manufactured for many years now so that leaves me with no known additives that work. The one being sold by Fritz might actually work but I have yet to see any reports of its success from a source aside from the company itself. I do note that the particular bacteria they mention in the sales text you posted are the ones more commonly useful in high concentration situations like waste treatment plants, not in aquariums.
Too late, just emptied it.....
I am so cross with myself, I will be able to explain to the guy at LFS exactly what that stuff is, no wonder I would have to keep treating the water, eg buying more........I had a feeling not to trust what he was selling, with patience comes bliss
 
I am able to get some filter material off a friend, but he has cold water large gold fish, am I able to use this filter material to start my filter off ? I would like to keep tropical fish will his filter material do also his tank is very very green with algae ( 8 foot long massive thing.)
 
Pretty sure this was reviewed in the latest PFK, though I can't remember what the verdict was now :p
 
Doesn't matter if you emptied the tank or not, it wont harm the process either way, as long as you did actually add dechlorinator this time around, since you should have some beneficial bacteria in the filter by now, you wouldn't want to harm it. Turn up your heater temperature to 30 degrees if it isn't already, bacteria seem to do better at higher temps. What you could ask your lfs for, is some mature media from their own filter system, that will help loads and could help cycle your tank quicker. Ultimately, its good to do your first cycle from scratch, gives you an understanding of what's going on and could help you save your fish if you run into problems later on.

Yes, filter media off your mate will help, cold or warm, doesnt matter.
 
Doesn't matter if you emptied the tank or not, it wont harm the process either way, as long as you did actually add dechlorinator this time around, since you should have some beneficial bacteria in the filter by now, you wouldn't want to harm it. Turn up your heater temperature to 30 degrees if it isn't already, bacteria seem to do better at higher temps. What you could ask your lfs for, is some mature media from their own filter system, that will help loads and could help cycle your tank quicker. Ultimately, its good to do your first cycle from scratch, gives you an understanding of what's going on and could help you save your fish if you run into problems later on.

Yes, filter media off your mate will help, cold or warm, doesnt matter.
Thanks Tizer, I think I will go with what you said and go from scratch, I didn't touch my filter except remove them stupid ball things LFS sold me, do I need to clean it out as I am worried they may effect the actual bacteria I really want that take time ?
 
as I mentioned not too long ago I had a 90 gallon take blow out on my. I saved all my fish, but the method I was using to keep them alive wasn't going to last long. So I went in, picked up the 125 gallon tank i have now, got it set up, heated the water, then poured in two bottles of this solution they sold me and 24 hours later, the brand new tank/water was ready for my fish. I never lost one. I wish I remembered the brand and what it was called, I can probably find out. But ya, it saved all my fish!



Did you continue to run your filter after your 90 gallon tank broke?

Terry.


Nope, I upgraded my filter as well, if that's what you were wondering.
 

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